Separate pregnant females!

[Dieselhybrid]

Hey guys just wanted to share a recent experience with you. I always try to separate pregnant females during late stages pregnancy. I've noticed that males can really sense that they're ready to breed again and start getting extremely aggressive with about a month left to go. I recently experienced this with one of my pairs. My BD leo male was relentless and managed to knock down a divider to get to my pregnant Leopoldi female who I thought was around 150 days pregnant. I walked in to take a peek at the tanks and saw the male breeding the pregnant female! I was very confused because I've never seen or heard of a pregnant female engaging in mating while visibly pregnant. When I walked closer I realized she'd giving birth to 5 pups. Sad part is they were all extremely premature. Yolk sacs were longer than their diameter disc each one was about 2 inches. They made it about 48 hours and then passed away. Make sure your dividers are secure. A lot of males especially mine will do anything to get to a female that's ready to breed again. They must release some pheromone that triggers it. I've seen males leave pregnant females alone for months but then about 3-5 weeks before birth it's a vicious attack to breed Again. This can trigger miscarriages.

This hobby is about doing the best you can and learning. I knew how important it was to separate this ray. I failed these pups. That divider had held with this pair and others before but this time it failed. It was only down for at most 2 hours. I'm learning from this and will not let it happen again.

Learn from the mistakes of others and don't make this mistake. It's a crappy feeling you don't want to experience.

 

[SHARK13]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience! Tough loss.
I have been fortunate my male will leave my female alone until after she gives birth. I seperated them during her first pregnancy just to be safe but she stopped eating after I did so. She refused food for a week straight, finally I gave in being worried about the pups and pulled the divider. She ate within minutes. I leave them in together all the time now.

 

[Dieselhybrid]

Here are some pups she had a while back for comparison.

 

[Dieselhybrid]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience! Tough loss.
I have been fortunate my male will leave my female alone until after she gives birth. I seperated them during her first pregnancy just to be safe but she stopped eating after I did so. She refused food for a week straight, finally I gave in being worried about the pups and pulled the divider. She ate within minutes. I leave them in together all the time now.

I'm happy yours work so well together. I have another pair just like that. These two used to be like that, peaceful until after birth. This male has developed extreme sexual aggression over the past year or two. Maybe just something to watch out for. He's around 7 or 8 now. Maybe they just keep getting more alpha like silverbacks. Or maybe this guy just likes to get down more in his older age. Maybe the notorious black ray aggression.

 

[rlane]

Males sure can be tough on females, no doubt about it. My one male is relentless going after my females but luckily in the past, once they were pregnant he would leave the females alone. Once I saw movement in the females back I would separate her. This last time he bred her, which was about a month and a half ago, he did the same exact thing. He left her completely alone after the deed was done and they were acting fine. Out of no where he started going after her again non stop to the point where she stopped feeding so I separated her. It took her about 10 days for her to start eating again. I have no idea why he just started going after her out of the blue like that. Do you think that her going off her feed for 10 days or so has made her abort the pups? She didn't give birth to anything and she is still fat but I haven't seen movement and really didn't expect to see anything until another month or so.

 

[moosemj]

Sorry to hear. It's rough. You have some good some bad experiences. Never seen them that premature. Better experience next time I hope.

 

[davenmandy]

I can't bring myself to like your post bro. That sucks. My divider gets knocked over frequently, that's an eye opener. My girl is 25 week now to my estimation, looks like I found a new project. I watch him aggressively bite at her about once a week but it isn't that bad, just some nips and a bit of chasing, nothing that stresses her out very much. Maybe I should watch a bit more closely.

 

[jim barry]

Bad news mate sorry for your loss. I know only too well how aggressive males can be to breed. I lost my breeding male due to his over eagerness to breed. It cost him his life.

 

[Dieselhybrid]

I'm reading my original post and I'm coming across like an alarmist. I was a bit "emo" when I shared. It's not a written in stone rule to separate but I think we should always keep a close eye on pregnant females. A couple bites here and there are business as usual, but when the males are outright trying to breed with pregnant females (trying to flip) that's when I suggest you divide when possible. I think Vamp lost a litter from this also. This pair has been fine together in past breeding. but the last two times the male has been impatient and trying to breed during late stage pregnancy. I actually think the female wanted to breed. they would bang the divider together, one pushing high the other pushing low. Smart creatures indeed.

Bad news mate sorry for your loss. I know only too well how aggressive males can be to breed. I lost my breeding male due to his over eagerness to breed. It cost him his life.

Jim please tell us more if you're comfortable. this gives me some concern. I'm sorry if I missed a thread about it. I've had some males get so into breeding that they quit eating while they are attempting.

I can't bring myself to like your post bro. That sucks. My divider gets knocked over frequently, that's an eye opener. My girl is 25 week now to my estimation, looks like I found a new project. I watch him aggressively bite at her about once a week but it isn't that bad, just some nips and a bit of chasing, nothing that stresses her out very much. Maybe I should watch a bit more closely.

Dave just something to keep an eye on. Females are tough, I'd just keep an eye out for direct breeding activity. I travel so much for business between our homes that sometimes it's just my lady sending me videos or brother taking care of things. not keeping a direct eye on things or paying enough attention to changes in behavior. Plus, they don't have the "eye" for things that I do. I"m working on setting up some webcams. Anybody know about wifi underwater webcams?

 

[Dieselhybrid]

Sorry to hear. It's rough. You have some good some bad experiences. Never seen them that premature. Better experience next time I hope.

I had never seen them this premature either. I appreciate your kind words. Maybe it was just a fluke, and eventually any mother can have a miscarriage. The sad part was watching the pups. The eggs sacks were so big they couldn't really move and just dragged them behind them. They would start turning/rotating in one direction. eventually they would turn so many times that the egg sacks/yolks would rupture, after this happened they usually died within a few hours. One by one they ruptured, there wasn't much I could do for them. sad thing to watch helplessly. We do the best we can and hopefully, by sharing this, it may save some pups and females in the future. I'm just glad the big momma is okay.