Serious help with ammonia issue...Please...

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Mizzy

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 22, 2007
13
0
0
Long Island, NY
I am a noob... i've made noob mistakes, but I am desperately trying to correct them, and I need some help.. please don't beat me up too much...

here's my problem... for Christmas my hubby let me purchase a 125 gal tank (I already have a successful 55gal trop tank). For filtration, I purchased an Eheim 2217. The LFS said that I could add Bio-spira and then add fish right away so, that's what I did. At this point, I knew nothing about cycling or water parameters.. I just got lucky with the 55g...

For weeks after that, the water in the tank was cloudy, and wouldn't clear up. The LFS didn't suggest ammonia or anything, just said that I needed to keep doing water changes, so I did... 1 change every 2-3 days...

I did some research on my own, and that's when I found out that the problem was probably that the tank had not cycled properly. I bought some test kits, and got an ammonia reading of 5ppm, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate. I immediately did 2 25% w/c's and then to do w/c's of 25% every other day, but the levels didn't seem to come down (ranging between 3-5ppm, still with 0 nitrites).

I have done ALOT of research since then and really hunkered down the last 3 weeks. I gave the tank another does of Bio Spira 3 weeks ago, I have done 25% w/c everyday or two depending on my test results, with 2 25% changes every 4 days to keep the levels down to where they don't "seem" to be affecting the fish... I add a little salt and stress coat, but nothing else... In the middle of all of this, I had an outbreak of ich, which I did treat with Maracide (finished the Maracide about a week and a half ago)

Tested the levels again this morning and here is what they read now:

Temp = 80
GH = 3
KH = 3
PH = 7.5
NH3 = 4
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 3

(Note: I tested the water in the 55 and straight from the tap, just to elliminate possibilities, and tests on both came up 0's across the board, with GH, KH & PH matching the above. I also brought a water sample to the LFS to make sure that I didn't have a bad test, but they came up with the same results)

This 125gl tank houses: 5/4-5" Red & Albino Oscars, 5/3" BP's, 3/3-4" Balas, 1/5" Pleco, and 1/4" Clown Loach... I know now, that as these fish get bigger, that 125gl will not be sufficient, but at these current sizes, is it possible that they are producing more waste then my Eheim 2217 can keep up with?

I have also added a bubble wand to help with aeration, and moved the filter spray bar to the top of the water level, spraying the length of the tank rather than the width (it had been previously been submerged) and also placed the intake for the filter in the middle of the tank to help make sure that all the water is being filtered...

Please help with this ammonia issue.. it does not seem to be affecting the fish... yet... but I don't want them to suffer for my mistakes.. any help is so greatly appreciated.... Sorry for the length, but I wanted to give you all the information... Thanks in advance...
 
The first thing I would do is sqeeze as much filter sludge from the 55 gallon filter as you can (without sacraficing it) into the new filter. It sounds like your filter is just not seeded all the way. That's a huge bioload to keep up with, so I would also feed lightly for a while.

If the Biospira isnt working, dont buy anymore. If it got warm chances are it's dead. Also, when you have perfectly live bacteria in another tank there's no reason to not use it! lol.

Goodluck and keep us updated, I'm sure you'll get a lot more info poured onto you.
 
Do as the above say!

Are you heating the tank to 80*? If so lower the temp... lower temps will allow more ammonia to stay bound and not harmful. I have had sucess with Prime after filter crashes to keep the fish out of ammonia shock and death.

You are showing nitrites so there is nitrification going on... try to get a handle on the ammonia first. Don`t rely on tests if you use Prime or something like. They test total ammonia not free ammonia.

Get the ammonia down and the other number will get better. Also to much water changes with gravel cleaning can be harmful as you remove bacteria.

For ICH the salt and heat treatment works well...
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys.. I will try that today and keep you posetd... one quick question before I do this though... when you say to squeeze the "sludge" into the new filter, is there a particular section I should be aiming for, or just right into the top? This is a canister filter and has a couple of layers to it...

As to the Nitrate levels, that was actually a typo... my nitrate levels are 0 also, not 3....

Thanks again!
 
First thing to do is daily water changes of 50%, I know this is alot but any ammonia levels above .25ppm is very dangerous for fish(even if they are not showing it). You also need to treat daily with "Prime" or "Ammolock" this will detoxify the ammonia(you still will have to remove by water changes.

Any off the fish you can temporaraly move to the 55gal will help to. Also reduce the feedings to once every other day.

I would leave the the filter alone, it has been seeded already and just needs time to build up enough bacteria to handle the bioload. At this time do not add anymore meds for the ICH. You can treat the Ich by raising you temp to 84 degrees and adding 1 tablespoon of salt to each 5 gallons water(you will need to add this amount to the new water at each water change.

Keep testing your water daily once your ammonia drops to .25ppm you can reduce the water changes either in volume or frequency.

So to sum things up; you will need to do this daily;

1-test water for ammonia
2-change 50% of the water(don't forget to add 1tblespoon salt per 5 gallon water)
3-add a double dose of prime or ammolock to detoxify the ammonia

To ensure the health of your fish this is what you will have to do.

The fish store was correct in saying you can add fish and biospira at the same time, the problem is you can't add that many fish that quickly. Every time you add more fish it takes awhile for your filter to build up more beneficial bacteria to support those fish.

Keep us updated here and ask any other question you may have.
 
You can do massive water changes without adversely affecting the fish. We had severe horrendous overcrowding (our rescued fish came in a 55 gallon tank--four large oscars, two 15" pacu, two 12"+ plecos) Once we learned about the nitrogen cycle and testing the water, we were doing the equivalent of 100% water changes every day. There was no way two dinky HOBs could keep up with the bioload of all those fish.

BioSpira has to be kept refrigerated to be any good. I would do big water changes to get the ammonia as close to 0 as possible. If I were in your situation, I'd use Zeolite to bind up ammonia. You have to be careful with Zeolite, in that once it maxes out, it will start leaching ammonia back into the tank, so it needs to be removed and recharged by soaking it in a solution of aquarium salt. In desperation, we've also used Amquel Plus to remove ammonia. You need plenty of aeration when using Amquel Plus, so adding another airstone might be in order if you use this product.These are emergency, temporary, stop gap measures in controlling ammonia. Nothing replaces a cycled tank with enough beneficial bacteria to handle the bioload of the tank.

Your tank is overstocked, and keeping excellent water parameters will become an increasingly difficult task as your fish get bigger.
 
aquanaut;718404; said:
Do as the above say!

Are you heating the tank to 80*? If so lower the temp... lower temps will allow more ammonia to stay bound and not harmful. I have had sucess with Prime after filter crashes to keep the fish out of ammonia shock and death.

You are showing nitrites so there is nitrification going on... try to get a handle on the ammonia first. Don`t rely on tests if you use Prime or something like. They test total ammonia not free ammonia.

Get the ammonia down and the other number will get better. Also to much water changes with gravel cleaning can be harmful as you remove bacteria.

For ICH the salt and heat treatment works well...
Click to expand...

Lower and Raise the tank temp at the same time? :screwy:
 
Mizzy;718422; said:
Thanks for the suggestions guys.. I will try that today and keep you posetd... one quick question before I do this though... when you say to squeeze the "sludge" into the new filter, is there a particular section I should be aiming for, or just right into the top? This is a canister filter and has a couple of layers to it...

As to the Nitrate levels, that was actually a typo... my nitrate levels are 0 also, not 3....

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

OUCH! That's even worse. Your tank hasn't even begun to cycle. You should remove as many fish from that tank as you can to keep the bioload as low as possible. You are, in essence, cycling the tank with your fish. It is going to be very traumatic and brutal on the fish.
 
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