Setting up a 400 gal tank

illumnae

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Feb 13, 2011
116
41
61
Singapore
I'm currently in the planning stages of setting up a 7' x 3' x 3' tank. Initially the tank was meant to be commissioned now, but the covid 19 situation has delayed my renovations by a few months so I have more time to ponder over the details. How I intend to set the tank up is to knock a wall down between two rooms and to have the tank where the wall used to be. The tank will be facing one of the rooms, which will be my man cave with a recliner facing the tank. Behind the tank will be my fish room where I will have a remote sump, sink and countertop workspace, rodi water collection barrel and a rack of 9 tanks for qt and breeding projects. A feature wall will be built around the tank to hide the fish room from sight, which will include a hidden door so that the fish room entrance blends into the home decor. I have some questions regarding how I should be setting up this system:

1. There will not be space at the sides of the tank for wavemakers so the return pump will have to take care of all the flow needs of the tank. I currently have an Abyzz A200 that I kept from my reef tank days but is this sufficient? Should I get a second A200 for redundancy and to share the load? The pump is controllable so I could run both at 70% to get more flow than 1 pump can provide without overdoing it with 2 pumps at full flow

2. Influenced from my reef tank days, I initially wanted to do an external overflow box with a beananimal drain system into the sump. However, would this create stagnant water and dead spots in the bottom half of the tank? I wanted a clean look in the tank and maybe even a 3d background, but should I instead opt for internal overflow boxes with under flows to get better flow in the bottom half of the tank?

3. I want to automate water changes. Is it better to incorporate an overflow into the return compartment of my sump and do a continuous drip from my rodi barrel, or use something like a Neptune Dos to automate a water change daily? I will have drainage built into the floor of the fish room.

4. What's a good percentage of water to be changing daily without being excessive?

5. I intend for the tank to be viewed while sitting on my recliner and in my experience a standard 3' stand is too high and I'll end up looking up into the tank instead of straight ahead. A lower stand is also better for maintenance given the 3' height of the tank (I am short at 5' 10" only). What's a recommended height for my stand for optimum viewing while seated and maintenance? I'm thinking 18" but some friends suggested 24"

6. How high wattage of led lighting is needed to penetrate 3' of water? Intention is for a South American biotope tank so it'll either be no plants or just low maintenance plants like Amazon swords. I'm thinking of 3x Kessil A160WE - good enough, not enough or too much?

7. The sink will be 2' and the rest of the counter top will be for working space. Should I do a 2-3ft countertop and leave the sump out in the open, or would it be better to extend the countertop out to 7-8' and keep the sump under the countertop? Leaving the sump out makes it easier to maintain but putting it under gives me much more space to work with. I will also be mounting my electricals like Neptune Apex and pump controllers on the wall above the sump, so having the sump under the extended countertop also adds safety in case anything drops off the wall, it won't fall into the sump.

Thank you in advance for your advice. I'm finally moving into a large enough house to set up my own man cave and fish room so I want to make sure I do it right!
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjohnwm

DN328

Potamotrygon
MFK Member
Aug 14, 2014
2,416
1,097
164
Fish Tank
Sounds like this will be a great project. Just some initial thoughts to offer...

- Why won't you have any space for the sides for wavemakers? If that's the case, you could get creative with the return flow using loc-lines. Also, as you've had reef tanks, are you familiar with closed loop circulations? I'm using that for (a smaller) freshwater tank and it works well too.

- If I was going to have space and room for maintenance, I would have them build a "coast-to-coast" external overflow on the backside and have the bean animal. Easy access in your filter/sump room

- my stand is 32". Sitting down looking at at 28" high stand tank provides for nice perspective. Slightly looking up allows you to view the top agitation/flow of water

- I've not used the Kessil but you should be able to adjust the intensity based on the need of your (lowlight?) plant and 36"+ tank dept.

- Abyzz should last forever right, no need for redundancy ? j/k
 

illumnae

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Feb 13, 2011
116
41
61
Singapore
- There are pillars at the sides that won't allow for magnet mounted wavemakers at the sides, and if I do a 3d background then I can't put them at the back either. I'm from Singapore and closed loops aren't popular here and tank makers are not comfortable drilling additional holes to support this. Reefers here use wavemakers

- yup the plan was for a coast to coast overflow with an external overflow box and beananimal drains, but the concern is lack of an underflow causing the water at the bottom to be stagnant

- For context, my last reef tank was a low profile one at only 20" height but with a 30-33" stand (can't remember the exact height but it was around there) and I found the total height too tall both for viewing when seated and maintenance. I did not really enjoy looking up towards the pale undersides of my sps tabling colonies and being unable to see the vibrant colors. Likewise for the swimming fish. I prefer viewing the tank face on. I found the height perfect for viewing while standing.

Sorry, a number of limitations that have to be worked around:(

Sounds like this will be a great project. Just some initial thoughts to offer...

- Why won't you have any space for the sides for wavemakers? If that's the case, you could get creative with the return flow using loc-lines. Also, as you've had reef tanks, are you familiar with closed loop circulations? I'm using that for (a smaller) freshwater tank and it works well too.

- If I was going to have space and room for maintenance, I would have them build a "coast-to-coast" external overflow on the backside and have the bean animal. Easy access in your filter/sump room

- my stand is 32". Sitting down looking at at 28" high stand tank provides for nice perspective. Slightly looking up allows you to view the top agitation/flow of water

- I've not used the Kessil but you should be able to adjust the intensity based on the need of your (lowlight?) plant and 36"+ tank dept.

- Abyzz should last forever right, no need for redundancy ? j/k
 

TheWolfman

Goliath Tigerfish
MFK Member
Sep 5, 2010
1,423
2,348
179
37
Long island, NY
With sufficient flow you shouldn't have any dead spots. How much turn over are you planing? Two return pumps should always be used for redundancy. I like the fluval lights myself, I would think the Kessles would be plenty of light for anything you want to grow. From your floor plans I can't tell if this is a basement or second floor? This sounds like a awesome project best of luck with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dr exum

illumnae

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Feb 13, 2011
116
41
61
Singapore
Thanks! This is the second floor, otherwise the tank would have been bigger! I'm building the biggest tank that the professional engineer would allow. So you would recommend a second A200 and turn them up? The A200 is rated at about 3750 gph

With sufficient flow you shouldn't have any dead spots. How much turn over are you planing? Two return pumps should always be used for redundancy. I like the fluval lights myself, I would think the Kessles would be plenty of light for anything you want to grow. From your floor plans I can't tell if this is a basement or second floor? This sounds like a awesome project best of luck with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dr exum

TheWolfman

Goliath Tigerfish
MFK Member
Sep 5, 2010
1,423
2,348
179
37
Long island, NY
Thanks! This is the second floor, otherwise the tank would have been bigger! I'm building the biggest tank that the professional engineer would allow. So you would recommend a second A200 and turn them up? The A200 is rated at about 3750 gph
The 3750 is the rating of the return pump at zero head height and 100 percent duty. After head height and all the elbows you can cut that's number in half. So expect around 1500 at around 60 percent duty give or take. The redundancy is the biggest thing here, but with one return pump all your eggs are in one basket. I hope you have some serious structural support under that tank on the second floor.
 

Kput

Exodon
MFK Member
Mar 9, 2020
64
79
21
30
You could potentially still use wavemakers, or a gyre? Use a style that runs the cord inside the tank, not the Vortech units with the power outside and controlling the prop via magnet?

Could attach the Gyre inside of the glass with some sort of adhesive so the magnet isn't needed. I imagine it wouldn't be a tremendous pain to have someone 3D Print a mount to hold a Gyre in place. That way the mount can be silicone'd onto the tank wall, but the gyre is removable for maintenance.

Using just the return pump sounds feasible, but it will make it harder to keep deitrus off the tank floor, and 20" of Line-Loc to point the flow at tank bottom might look a little odd..
 

illumnae

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Feb 13, 2011
116
41
61
Singapore
I'll look into getting a second pump. For the structural integrity, that's why I'm getting a professional engineer to certify the tank size that is able to be supported. In Singapore houses are typically built with concrete pillars and beams so there's fairly good support.

The 3750 is the rating of the return pump at zero head height and 100 percent duty. After head height and all the elbows you can cut that's number in half. So expect around 1500 at around 60 percent duty give or take. The redundancy is the biggest thing here, but with one return pump all your eggs are in one basket. I hope you have some serious structural support under that tank on the second floor.
Using a siliconed in bracket would affect aesthetics quite significantly :(

You could potentially still use wavemakers, or a gyre? Use a style that runs the cord inside the tank, not the Vortech units with the power outside and controlling the prop via magnet?

Could attach the Gyre inside of the glass with some sort of adhesive so the magnet isn't needed. I imagine it wouldn't be a tremendous pain to have someone 3D Print a mount to hold a Gyre in place. That way the mount can be silicone'd onto the tank wall, but the gyre is removable for maintenance.

Using just the return pump sounds feasible, but it will make it harder to keep deitrus off the tank floor, and 20" of Line-Loc to point the flow at tank bottom might look a little odd..
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheWolfman

illumnae

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Feb 13, 2011
116
41
61
Singapore
Does anyone have suggestions for lights that can penetrate up to 4ft of water height? Doesn't have to be super bright at the bottom, but at least be able to see the fish swimming around
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store