Should i use CaribSea Aragonite substrate for flowerhorn?

[Saintsaber]

Hey should i use Carib Sea Aragonite substrate for my flowerhorn?
Ive been having Ph problem 6.2-6.5 and i need that to fix will this fix it and will i need to replace it?
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753226&lmdn=Product+Type

 

[henryisbored]

you can add crushed coral to raise the ph,or add driftwood to lower the ph .

 

[Saintsaber]

Does aragonite sand dissapear or do i have to manualy grab it and replace the sand when it dissolves or if it does.

 

[Juxtaroberto]

6.2 doesn't sound like bad pH at all... unless I'm missing something and flowerhorns need high pH? But then again aren't they bred from CA/SA cichlids? Which all inhabit soft water? Besides, pH isn't too important, except for really picky fish (like pikes, or breeding discus, etc).

I think aragonite does disappear over time, since it's dissolving into the water and hardening it. About an inch a year, I think.

 

[BIG_ONE]

6.2 doesn't sound like bad pH at all... unless I'm missing something and flowerhorns need high pH? But then again aren't they bred from CA/SA cichlids? Which all inhabit soft water? Besides, pH isn't too important, except for really picky fish (like pikes, or breeding discus, etc).

I think aragonite does disappear over time, since it's dissolving into the water and hardening it. About an inch a year, I think.

A flowerhorn living in a 8.0 water and transferred into even a 7.5 pH will starve itself and change its entire attitude to death. Happened to me once with my most cared for and valuable flowerhorn and I am not going to make the same mistake again. Even though they are from CA cichlids, they prefer higher pH than lower pH.
As far as those CaribSea Aragonite sand, it would be a bad idea. The reason why I said that is because those sand are off from the reef(I believe they are from the reef) and that means that they contain a high amount of salt. If so, why not use it for African Cichlids? Which I find that no one uses for African unless their African's are brackish fish.
Best if you would just get some crushed coral and put it in your tank, slowly add 1lbs each day until your desired pH. You can also do it with sea shells, but crush corals can provide beneficial bacteria to grow onto.

 

[Juxtaroberto]

A flowerhorn living in a 8.0 water and transferred into even a 7.5 pH will starve itself and change its entire attitude to death. Happened to me once with my most cared for and valuable flowerhorn and I am not going to make the same mistake again. Even though they are from CA cichlids, they prefer higher pH than lower pH.
As far as those CaribSea Aragonite sand, it would be a bad idea. The reason why I said that is because those sand are off from the reef(I believe they are from the reef) and that means that they contain a high amount of salt. If so, why not use it for African Cichlids? Which I find that no one uses for African unless their African's are brackish fish.
Best if you would just get some crushed coral and put it in your tank, slowly add 1lbs each day until your desired pH. You can also do it with sea shells, but crush corals can provide beneficial bacteria to grow onto.

Corals are from the reef, too...

 

[BIG_ONE]

Corals are from the reef, too...

Most crushed corals are thoroughly washed, CaribSea Aragonite isn't. Both Aragonite sand and crushed coral will dissolve over time. But one thing about Aragonite sand is that its buffing ability isn't suitable for freshwater(what I mean is that it doesn't bump as much as crushed coral - although they both are plainly just corals in different texture from different location around the world), crushed coral can bump it stronger therefore keeping it more stable than Aragonite if used for freshwater. Now when it comes to SW, Aragonite will do just fine as the salt itself will keep the pH high(and most SW hobbyist uses Aragonite because crushed coral can be sharp therefore can harm SW fish fairly easily v.s. flowerhorns/cichlids).

 

[RD.]

Go to a feed mill & buy a bag of crushed oyster shells (more effective than crushed coral, and far cheaper) and place a media bag full in your filter/s.
A 25lb bag can be had for $10-15, and should last you for years.

BTW - not all CA/SA fish inhabit soft water, or water with below neutral pH. As an example, many fish from the amphilophus genus (such as red devils & midas) come from volcanic lakes with pH values in the 8.0 range.

But one thing about Aragonite sand is that its buffing ability isn't suitable for freshwater(what I mean is that it doesn't bump as much as crushed coral - although they both are plainly just corals in different texture from different location around the world), crushed coral can bump it stronger therefore keeping it more stable than Aragonite if used for freshwater.

Aragonite sands buffering ability is suitable for freshwater, not sure where you came up with the notion that it is not? Nor does it contain "high amounts of salt". It just costs a LOT more than something such as crushed oyster shell, and the most effective place for any of this media is in the FILTER/S, not as a substrate.

 

[RD.]

A flowerhorn living in a 8.0 water and transferred into even a 7.5 pH will starve itself and change its entire attitude to death.

Not likely. As previously mentioned, pH values will have little effect on most fish, as long as the water parameters remain stable. What some people refer to as "pH shock", is a misnomer at best. Typically what causes shock in fish is a rapid/sudden change in TDS values, not pH.
Just another one of those common misconceptions in the hobby, and repeated enough that some people actually begin to take comments such as the one above as fact.

Even tank raised discus will do well at higher pH values in the 8.0 range, and breed, there will simply be a lower hatch rate from the eggs in harder water with higher pH values. Most discus breeders will actually raise their fry in harder water with higher pH values as the fish grow larger, faster, than if raised in softer water. Freshwater fish kept in hard water (>250 mg/l alkalinity) will spend less metabolic energy on osmoregulation than fish kept in soft water (< 100 mg/l alkalinity) - thus providing more metabolic energy for growth.

 

[RD.]

Just to exapnd on the pH comment posted by Big_One .......


As previously mentioned, the term "pH shock" is a misnomer.

What one really needs to pay attention to is TDS (total dissolved solids). Moving fish from water with low TDS to high TDS is usually tolerated fairly well, where as moving a fish from high TDS to low TDS can often cause a great deal of osmotic stress, even death.

If one looks at this from even a common sense approach, if what you stated about pH shock was true, most fish being imported in from outside of the country would be dead long before you opened the bag, as the vast majority of exporters do not use long term pH stabilizing agents when they bag the fish, and after 24-48 hrs the pH in those bags has definitely dropped, in many cases by a significant amount.

In shipping situations this is a good thing, as the lower pH protects the fish from ammonia. Once the bag is opened, and C02 escapes, the (fish safe) ammonium, converts to ammonia, which can be toxic to fish at higher pH values. Hence the reason that most importers pay more attention to the water temp of the bag than anything else, and in the vast majority of cases simply open the bags, net the fish out, and drop them into their holding tanks. Experienced commercial importers learned a long time ago that the quicker you get the fish out of that toxic soup in a bag, the better.


Some light reading on this subject.

http://www.oscarfish.com/article-home/water/73-myths-of-ph-shock.html

http://www.oscarfish.com/article-home/water/74-realities-of-ph-shock.html

http://www.mtfb.com/MTFBJUNE/MTFB2 pages/jacobsarticle2.htm

http://www.shrimpnow.com/content.ph...ce-on-Acclimating-and-Quarantining-New-Shrimp

A post by Wright Huntley, from the American Killifish Association.
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php/48165-Facts-and-Myths-about-Ph

An article by Niels Jensen on this subject:
http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3480

And yet another article (By Robert T. Ricketts, the puffer guru) that explains the same thing about so called "pH shock".
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article56.html


Hopefully that clears that up.