Shovelnose
- Thread starter geophagus
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Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum - the most common (~99.99%) of the TSN species found in the ornamental fish trade. They are all culls from the fish farm industry. They are all underachievers and, hence, most importantly to a hobbyist, they appear to never exceed 2'-2.5' in final size, which is not necessarily due to captivity life but due to their poor genes - this is precisely why they are weeded out from the farming operations in the first place.
Very few wild caught ones are offered for sale and most often even then one cannot be sure it was indeed w/c until it grows up.
Very few wild caught ones are offered for sale and most often even then one cannot be sure it was indeed w/c until it grows up.
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Thanks thebiggerthebetter 
I bought it from a guy that does all his imports directly from Colombia, but it can of course be farmed even down there?
I will update with new pics as it grows bigger.
I bought it from a guy that does all his imports directly from Colombia, but it can of course be farmed even down there?
I will update with new pics as it grows bigger.
These fish are available by millions from the farms and are a dime a dozen, making the most profit for everyone along the supply chain. Nothing can compete with these farm refuse fish anywhere in the world, even less so in South America. There is no financial incentive and neither a market (apart from a few die-hard TSN nerds) to do anything more. Culled TSN obliterate any competition.
In fact, this is probably true for any fish farmed in masses for food, less so for wild restocking, etc.
In theory, and it seems in very rare occasions, different TSN species can make it into the trade as do wild-caught fasciatum. For these, the price is much higher because collecting from the wild costs lots more but this also can be an invitation to even higher "no brainer but against conscience" profit by less honest suppliers. An easy score for them and no accountability - no one really knows or can prove much definitive.
Or anyone can play dumb and point down the supply chain and finally at the collector guys who wallow in the muck anyway, usually simple, poor and uneducated folks.
So to get a w/c TSN one would need to go though a reliable and honest vendor with a reputation to hold up and with a special order and be prepared to pay more than $15 for baby TSN, more like ~$50 and upwards of several hundred $$ for rare species, e.g., corruscans.
wednesday13
could shoot me down, correct, or tell us more on this topic...
In fact, this is probably true for any fish farmed in masses for food, less so for wild restocking, etc.
In theory, and it seems in very rare occasions, different TSN species can make it into the trade as do wild-caught fasciatum. For these, the price is much higher because collecting from the wild costs lots more but this also can be an invitation to even higher "no brainer but against conscience" profit by less honest suppliers. An easy score for them and no accountability - no one really knows or can prove much definitive.
Or anyone can play dumb and point down the supply chain and finally at the collector guys who wallow in the muck anyway, usually simple, poor and uneducated folks.
So to get a w/c TSN one would need to go though a reliable and honest vendor with a reputation to hold up and with a special order and be prepared to pay more than $15 for baby TSN, more like ~$50 and upwards of several hundred $$ for rare species, e.g., corruscans.
wednesday13
could shoot me down, correct, or tell us more on this topic...
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It'll be highly appreciated if you come through with your promise because this would be most educational for all who will read this.
Regrettably, this happens exceedingly rare, I mean people reporting long time on their fish, for years and longer. Things tend to "happen" in our complex hobby.
Regrettably, this happens exceedingly rare, I mean people reporting long time on their fish, for years and longer. Things tend to "happen" in our complex hobby.
I agree with
thebiggerthebetter
, 99.9% chance its a P. Fasciatum even if it was sold as "wild caught" columbian. W/C can mean caught out of a netted pen in the river itself. Farms are in, on and around the rivers so its getting harder to even get a pure blood specimen. All will end up being hybrids one day im sure as the gene pool is further muddied by humans. As Viktor stated, ud need a trustworthy vendor to pretty much go down there himself and hand collect a specimen to ensure its wild caught...and correctly i.d.'d in the first place. Much easier, and cheaper to order from a farm so thats most likely how it got here one way or another. Even 5-8yrs ago chances were pretty slim for other species to pop up in the trade. That window keeps closing with the amt. of aquaculture goin on these days.
thebiggerthebetter
, 99.9% chance its a P. Fasciatum even if it was sold as "wild caught" columbian. W/C can mean caught out of a netted pen in the river itself. Farms are in, on and around the rivers so its getting harder to even get a pure blood specimen. All will end up being hybrids one day im sure as the gene pool is further muddied by humans. As Viktor stated, ud need a trustworthy vendor to pretty much go down there himself and hand collect a specimen to ensure its wild caught...and correctly i.d.'d in the first place. Much easier, and cheaper to order from a farm so thats most likely how it got here one way or another. Even 5-8yrs ago chances were pretty slim for other species to pop up in the trade. That window keeps closing with the amt. of aquaculture goin on these days.Thanks for the input guys, highly appreciated.
I`ll ask the owner if he knows anything about its origin (forgot to ask when i was there), as this cat wasnt why i went to his shop in the first place, but to pick up a small pack of Cichla.
I guess the only way to be sure to get w/c fish is to actually go down there yourself.
I`ll ask the owner if he knows anything about its origin (forgot to ask when i was there), as this cat wasnt why i went to his shop in the first place, but to pick up a small pack of Cichla.
I guess the only way to be sure to get w/c fish is to actually go down there yourself.
Just asked him, and he said he doesnt know exact location - but that it is in fact wild caught by fishermen he has a long term relation with.
So that means im really not sure.... But i`ll keep you updated with pictures as it grows
Btw; this is not the typical commercial shop, but a small local "one-man" enthusiast owned shop thats specializing in predators and rare fish. But he can of course not be 100% sure of the origin of the fish either i guess...
So that means im really not sure.... But i`ll keep you updated with pictures as it grows
Btw; this is not the typical commercial shop, but a small local "one-man" enthusiast owned shop thats specializing in predators and rare fish. But he can of course not be 100% sure of the origin of the fish either i guess...
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I can appreciate your optimism. Wish I was the same... but now I know too much haha
How much did you pay (in US dollars if possible please)? As I tried to convey, that could be a weak pointer.
Regardless, though, I think getting a non-farm-cull TSN is getting close to winning a lottery these days, unless, like you said, you or your trusted vendor do the collecting themselves.
Vague is the name of the game. If a vendor is vague, especially upfront, they are not accountable for the purchases YOU make. "I told you I was not sure. You bought it anyway." No one can prove anything in the end, not in the court of law anyway and no one would bother.
All we can do is try to make more educated purchases in the future.
And on the upside, "dwarf" TSN are much, much easier to house. Approximately a 2000 gal could suffice.
How much did you pay (in US dollars if possible please)? As I tried to convey, that could be a weak pointer.
Regardless, though, I think getting a non-farm-cull TSN is getting close to winning a lottery these days, unless, like you said, you or your trusted vendor do the collecting themselves.
Vague is the name of the game. If a vendor is vague, especially upfront, they are not accountable for the purchases YOU make. "I told you I was not sure. You bought it anyway." No one can prove anything in the end, not in the court of law anyway and no one would bother.
All we can do is try to make more educated purchases in the future.
And on the upside, "dwarf" TSN are much, much easier to house. Approximately a 2000 gal could suffice.