You had 3 options so far, Retics, Hystrixs i think and Scobina.. everything else is like over 20" easy that i know of.. im telling you look at these pics of rays on this link... they have some cool pictures... Also my Retic was 50$ i got 2 only one made it, Ray Ray died, and Stingy Is large and in charge...usually other stingrays besides retics ar eover 100$ too.. i was told to order a motoro from my LFS would be 250 for a pup, with a no guarentee!!! so F that