So begin the great debate..........

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BODYDUB

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Dec 18, 2009
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Killeen
After reading and pondering this subject I've decided to see what MFK has to say on the subject.....Now we all know that we need Beneficial Bacteria (BB) to rid of ammonia and nitrites; and that they live on all surfaces in the tank to include our filters. Filters cycle water through BB to keep water parameters in check. Now some people keep tanks bare bottom without any problems what so ever just as people with substrate.

So here are my questions.
1) Do we really need substrate for BB or is it just a added decoration?
2) Since BB lives on all surfaces could we just add powerheads to flow water around instead of filters?
3) If we need filtration to keep water in check. Then how are fish able to survive in ponds without water being cycled?
I hope that made sense...........
 
ponds have no circulation or waterchanges. I guess algae and plants absorb the nitrates. i would say that the average pond is probably very understocked compared to the average home aquarium. I'm sure the experiment could work, as long as there weren't too many or too big fish in a big enough aquarium. I would bet you could keep a ram or two in a 90 gallon without filtration. just good circulation, plenty of lace rock and plenty of plants. I'm sure I'll get flamed for suggesting that, though.

oh, and no, you don't need substrate for bb. I've seen plenty of people on here with bare bottom tanks.
 
1) Do we really need substrate for BB or is it just a added decoration?
If we accommodate the bb by providing enough surface area in our filters, then no, substrate is not needed. If using an under-gravel filter, of course, the substrate IS the filter so you cannot go without it. Certain fish do need specific substrates for feeding, hiding, breeding etc., but for the most part barebottom is a cleaner option.

2) Since BB lives on all surfaces could we just add powerheads to flow water around instead of filters?
Yes, as long as there is strong enough movement to get water across every pebble to prevent anoxic conditions, and enough surface area to accommodate the fish.
3) If we need filtration to keep water in check. Then how are fish able to survive in ponds without water being cycled?
It is cycled naturally. Nitrifiers are living on every rock, twig and shallow. It's not perfect, either, and nature does pull some mean punches in lakes and ponds. Sometimes all of the fish die in the heat of summer or if carp kill all the plants.

you could keep a ram or two in a 90 gallon without filtration.
Click to expand...
This is 100% true as long as the other basic conditions are met like heating and pH stabilization. I had a betta in a 40g with a little algae and no ammonia. Ever. Even in week one. Just a bubbler and some caves for her to hide in. The nitrifiers can live on glass, too, so even in a bare tank it could be done.
 
We don't need substrate since in most set ups the BB will only live at the surface of the substrate. You do need some substrate for plants though.

You can do a filterless tank if you have enough plants, add enough additional nutrients (so that organics are the bottle neck to plant growth) and reasonably stock them.

Pond Rivers and rain. Every natural pond I've seen has overflow paths when it rains.

Filtered system make maintenance easier.
 
OK cool, I just wanted to clear up some questions in my head that I had. Thanx..........
 
This topic also depends on if its in a tank, or pond. Also if its fresh or salt. Also if the sand is fine grain or non pocketing. Also if its gravel.


I would say many are better than others, but a tank can be accomplished without substrate. Though it does have to be made up for.
 
1. mainly added decoration imo
2.it's doable, especially if ya get a powerhead with attachable sponge for surface area. heck why not go even simpler and just hook up an air pump to a sponge filter, probably the lowest-tech set-up available but still pretty efficient when combined with water changes.
3. as stated the BB lives everywhere in lakes/ponds and there is generally much more plant life to help as well.
 
1. I have both.. haven't seen any differences between them other then my gravel tanks w/ plants.. which is the plants not the gravel mostly that make differences.

2. yep.. well said by others.

3. bio-diversity... everything has it's place and it's "job" and nature balances it by birth and death of it all. Aquariasts get closer and closer to mimicing this as we learn the finer points of how these natural systems work.
 
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