So you want to keep cichlids?

[duanes]

Where most cichlids live in nature, their water quality is quite high.
What does this mean to a cichlid keeper?

It means
If you are only able to,
or only have the time for,
or only have enough ambition to do a 25% water change in your tanks total volume of water per week…cichlids are probably not the fish for you.
Most cichlids will require a minimum of 50% to 100% water change per week depending on species, will be needed (more is always better)

There are ways to get around so many water changes
Some use anoxic substrate and resins that chemically reduce nitrate.
Some aquarists use large planted sumps where aquatic and terrestrial plants use nitrate as fast as it is produced by fish, but water still to be done to reduce, and or replenish nutrients and minerals we aquarists don’t have the ability to test for.


Or you may want to keep more specized species.

If you want to keep S American Cichlids from, the low pH rivers such as the Rio Negro, Rio Atabapo or Rio Orinoco, and you are not willing to adjust your tap waters pH and hardness to those levels,
these cichlids are not for you.
Average pH of the Amazon basins 6.7

Or…..
If you want to keep hard water, high pH cichlids from the Rift lakes, or river and lakes in Central America…
and if you are not willing to adjust your water parameters with minerals, to at least the upper 7s, preferably 8 or above, or have tap water parameters the meet to those levels naturally, ..these cichlids are probably not for you.

Or if you want to keep fast water, rheophillic cichlids such as many Geophagine, Retroculus, of Tomocichla), or species from the surge zones of the large African lakes that require highly oxygenated wave aerated waters.
If so, they may require strong water pumps, and enough filtration to keep dissolved oxygen high enough to meet their needs, these cichlids are not for you.
Pumps and aeration much stronger than the average HOB, or canister can provide.

 

[jjohnwm]

duanes ! How dare you inject a dose of hard reality into the fantasy world in which so many aquarists live?!? You're suggesting that there are some things that can't be done; people today are brain-washed into believing that they can do anything they put their minds to. The word "no" is not acceptable.

This is strictly my personal opinion, and therefore worth exactly what it costs you, but...I seriously believe that cichlids in general are a poor choice for a beginning aquarist, and the reasons go beyond the logical ones listed above. Before the name-calling begins, I'd suggest reading a week's worth of MFK posts, concentrating on those that are regarding behavioural problems of various fish. Ignore the pleas for help with diseases or aquarium equipment or water chemistry or the myriad other standard questions that beginners ask; just look for the ones that relate to aggression and other behavioural quirks of fish.

I'd bet folding money that the vast majority of those "my fish is crazy!" threads have cichlids as their focus. Sure, everybody loves 'em; they're colourful, they're beautiful, they have fascinating breeding strategies and methods, blah, blah, blah...but they're also drama queens and trouble-makers and s##t-disturbers. Experienced keepers know what they are getting into and usually have a pretty good idea of how to overcome these hurdles, but beginners? No, beginners have enough challenges to face simply getting an aquarium set up and functioning properly. I just don't think they need the additional headaches of fish psychopaths in their tanks.

IMHO, nobody who owns only a single aquarium has any business trying to create a cichlid community. When you see a beautiful cichlid community containing multiple species and individuals living in harmonious bliss...you can almost guarantee that the owner of that tank has multiple other tanks into which he/she can move the inevitable nut-case that wants to turn the tank status quo upside down. It's very likely that they have already needed to move out bad actors in the past while carefully assembling that attractive community that is so appealing; either that or they have sat by and watched some of their beloved fish killing some of their other beloved fish When you need to ask "Can I keep this fish with that fish?" then there's a good chance that you can't.

That's not an indictment of new keepers that want cichlids. How can they not? We hear non-stop how amazing they are from keepers who have the time, the space, the experience and the knowledge to successfully maintain these aquatic buttheads, so of course they attain a sort of cult status in the hobby.

But let's face reality. Cichlids are troublesome fish. IMHO they are best left to keepers who have amassed at least some basic skill at the aquarium game and who have more than one tank just in case. For a first tank, beginners are much better served if they select the easy livebearers, cyprinids, characins, corydoras cats, etc. There's no shame in learning to walk before you run.

Yes, of course there are some exceptions to this rule, but beginners don't seem to want to keep Keyholes; they gravitate to the biggest, nastiest species they can find. They reel with indignation when told that, no, there is not enough room in their "huge" 90 gallon tank for yet another Peacock Bass. The answer they fall back on is "But...I really, really want to..."

Some of them do some research, but it often seems that they aren't looking for hard data or statistics. They'll look here and there, finding source after source after source that all agree their desired stocking is a bad idea...and then when they inevitably find the one website that says "Sure, it'll be fine! I've had that exact same combination for almost a week and they get along great!" well, there ya go! Validation! I knew I could do it! Where's my wallet?

It's gotten to the point where a new thread title that contains the word "stocking" has me scrolling right on past, not even bothering to read it. Just not worth the trouble. You don't buy a 700-pound Harley as your first motorcycle; you don't run a marathon the first day you decide to start exercising; you don't keep a Russian Wolfhound in a 20th-floor bachelor apartment. You just don't.

Cichlids...most of them...almost all of them!...are like that.

 

[Midwater]

Where most cichlids live in nature, their water quality is quite high.

Most cichlids, or most fish (except farmed) in general?

 

[Roger Mcfish]

duanes ! How dare you inject a dose of hard reality into the fantasy world in which so many aquarists live?!? You're suggesting that there are some things that can't be done; people today are brain-washed into believing that they can do anything they put their minds to. The word "no" is not acceptable.

This is strictly my personal opinion, and therefore worth exactly what it costs you, but...I seriously believe that cichlids in general are a poor choice for a beginning aquarist, and the reasons go beyond the logical ones listed above. Before the name-calling begins, I'd suggest reading a week's worth of MFK posts, concentrating on those that are regarding behavioural problems of various fish. Ignore the pleas for help with diseases or aquarium equipment or water chemistry or the myriad other standard questions that beginners ask; just look for the ones that relate to aggression and other behavioural quirks of fish.

I'd bet folding money that the vast majority of those "my fish is crazy!" threads have cichlids as their focus. Sure, everybody loves 'em; they're colourful, they're beautiful, they have fascinating breeding strategies and methods, blah, blah, blah...but they're also drama queens and trouble-makers and s##t-disturbers. Experienced keepers know what they are getting into and usually have a pretty good idea of how to overcome these hurdles, but beginners? No, beginners have enough challenges to face simply getting an aquarium set up and functioning properly. I just don't think they need the additional headaches of fish psychopaths in their tanks.

IMHO, nobody who owns only a single aquarium has any business trying to create a cichlid community. When you see a beautiful cichlid community containing multiple species and individuals living in harmonious bliss...you can almost guarantee that the owner of that tank has multiple other tanks into which he/she can move the inevitable nut-case that wants to turn the tank status quo upside down. It's very likely that they have already needed to move out bad actors in the past while carefully assembling that attractive community that is so appealing; either that or they have sat by and watched some of their beloved fish killing some of their other beloved fish When you need to ask "Can I keep this fish with that fish?" then there's a good chance that you can't.

That's not an indictment of new keepers that want cichlids. How can they not? We hear non-stop how amazing they are from keepers who have the time, the space, the experience and the knowledge to successfully maintain these aquatic buttheads, so of course they attain a sort of cult status in the hobby.

But let's face reality. Cichlids are troublesome fish. IMHO they are best left to keepers who have amassed at least some basic skill at the aquarium game and who have more than one tank just in case. For a first tank, beginners are much better served if they select the easy livebearers, cyprinids, characins, corydoras cats, etc. There's no shame in learning to walk before you run.

Yes, of course there are some exceptions to this rule, but beginners don't seem to want to keep Keyholes; they gravitate to the biggest, nastiest species they can find. They reel with indignation when told that, no, there is not enough room in their "huge" 90 gallon tank for yet another Peacock Bass. The answer they fall back on is "But...I really, really want to..."

Some of them do some research, but it often seems that they aren't looking for hard data or statistics. They'll look here and there, finding source after source after source that all agree their desired stocking is a bad idea...and then when they inevitably find the one website that says "Sure, it'll be fine! I've had that exact same combination for almost a week and they get along great!" well, there ya go! Validation! I knew I could do it! Where's my wallet?

It's gotten to the point where a new thread title that contains the word "stocking" has me scrolling right on past, not even bothering to read it. Just not worth the trouble. You don't buy a 700-pound Harley as your first motorcycle; you don't run a marathon the first day you decide to start exercising; you don't keep a Russian Wolfhound in a 20th-floor bachelor apartment. You just don't.

Cichlids...most of them...almost all of them!...are like that.

I agree and understand. The only "community" tanks I have are south american. 75 gallon apisto tank with neon tetra and cherry barbs. Most peaceful tank I've owned lol.
The other is a 125 with 2 severums, an Angel, geophagus red head tapajos and a few silver dollars (smaller species).
My central american tanks are either solo fish or species only for grow outs on a pair. I like doing as much research as possible before setting something up like temps, pH, TDS and list goes on. Most of the problem is the people that dont do enough research and impulse buy because the fish store said they can, meanwhile those stores (not all) are just to make a sale.

 

[Roger Mcfish]

duanes ! How dare you inject a dose of hard reality into the fantasy world in which so many aquarists live?!? You're suggesting that there are some things that can't be done; people today are brain-washed into believing that they can do anything they put their minds to. The word "no" is not acceptable.

This is strictly my personal opinion, and therefore worth exactly what it costs you, but...I seriously believe that cichlids in general are a poor choice for a beginning aquarist, and the reasons go beyond the logical ones listed above. Before the name-calling begins, I'd suggest reading a week's worth of MFK posts, concentrating on those that are regarding behavioural problems of various fish. Ignore the pleas for help with diseases or aquarium equipment or water chemistry or the myriad other standard questions that beginners ask; just look for the ones that relate to aggression and other behavioural quirks of fish.

I'd bet folding money that the vast majority of those "my fish is crazy!" threads have cichlids as their focus. Sure, everybody loves 'em; they're colourful, they're beautiful, they have fascinating breeding strategies and methods, blah, blah, blah...but they're also drama queens and trouble-makers and s##t-disturbers. Experienced keepers know what they are getting into and usually have a pretty good idea of how to overcome these hurdles, but beginners? No, beginners have enough challenges to face simply getting an aquarium set up and functioning properly. I just don't think they need the additional headaches of fish psychopaths in their tanks.

IMHO, nobody who owns only a single aquarium has any business trying to create a cichlid community. When you see a beautiful cichlid community containing multiple species and individuals living in harmonious bliss...you can almost guarantee that the owner of that tank has multiple other tanks into which he/she can move the inevitable nut-case that wants to turn the tank status quo upside down. It's very likely that they have already needed to move out bad actors in the past while carefully assembling that attractive community that is so appealing; either that or they have sat by and watched some of their beloved fish killing some of their other beloved fish When you need to ask "Can I keep this fish with that fish?" then there's a good chance that you can't.

That's not an indictment of new keepers that want cichlids. How can they not? We hear non-stop how amazing they are from keepers who have the time, the space, the experience and the knowledge to successfully maintain these aquatic buttheads, so of course they attain a sort of cult status in the hobby.

But let's face reality. Cichlids are troublesome fish. IMHO they are best left to keepers who have amassed at least some basic skill at the aquarium game and who have more than one tank just in case. For a first tank, beginners are much better served if they select the easy livebearers, cyprinids, characins, corydoras cats, etc. There's no shame in learning to walk before you run.

Yes, of course there are some exceptions to this rule, but beginners don't seem to want to keep Keyholes; they gravitate to the biggest, nastiest species they can find. They reel with indignation when told that, no, there is not enough room in their "huge" 90 gallon tank for yet another Peacock Bass. The answer they fall back on is "But...I really, really want to..."

Some of them do some research, but it often seems that they aren't looking for hard data or statistics. They'll look here and there, finding source after source after source that all agree their desired stocking is a bad idea...and then when they inevitably find the one website that says "Sure, it'll be fine! I've had that exact same combination for almost a week and they get along great!" well, there ya go! Validation! I knew I could do it! Where's my wallet?

It's gotten to the point where a new thread title that contains the word "stocking" has me scrolling right on past, not even bothering to read it. Just not worth the trouble. You don't buy a 700-pound Harley as your first motorcycle; you don't run a marathon the first day you decide to start exercising; you don't keep a Russian Wolfhound in a 20th-floor bachelor apartment. You just don't.

Cichlids...most of them...almost all of them!...are like that.

Also forgot, when people say "my fish are friends"

 

[SRT_Jon]

This was a very good read. thanks for taking the time and posting

 

[wamu]

duanes ! How dare you inject a dose of hard reality into the fantasy world in which so many aquarists live?!? You're suggesting that there are some things that can't be done; people today are brain-washed into believing that they can do anything they put their minds to. The word "no" is not acceptable.

This is strictly my personal opinion, and therefore worth exactly what it costs you, but...I seriously believe that cichlids in general are a poor choice for a beginning aquarist, and the reasons go beyond the logical ones listed above. Before the name-calling begins, I'd suggest reading a week's worth of MFK posts, concentrating on those that are regarding behavioural problems of various fish. Ignore the pleas for help with diseases or aquarium equipment or water chemistry or the myriad other standard questions that beginners ask; just look for the ones that relate to aggression and other behavioural quirks of fish.

I'd bet folding money that the vast majority of those "my fish is crazy!" threads have cichlids as their focus. Sure, everybody loves 'em; they're colourful, they're beautiful, they have fascinating breeding strategies and methods, blah, blah, blah...but they're also drama queens and trouble-makers and s##t-disturbers. Experienced keepers know what they are getting into and usually have a pretty good idea of how to overcome these hurdles, but beginners? No, beginners have enough challenges to face simply getting an aquarium set up and functioning properly. I just don't think they need the additional headaches of fish psychopaths in their tanks.

IMHO, nobody who owns only a single aquarium has any business trying to create a cichlid community. When you see a beautiful cichlid community containing multiple species and individuals living in harmonious bliss...you can almost guarantee that the owner of that tank has multiple other tanks into which he/she can move the inevitable nut-case that wants to turn the tank status quo upside down. It's very likely that they have already needed to move out bad actors in the past while carefully assembling that attractive community that is so appealing; either that or they have sat by and watched some of their beloved fish killing some of their other beloved fish When you need to ask "Can I keep this fish with that fish?" then there's a good chance that you can't.

That's not an indictment of new keepers that want cichlids. How can they not? We hear non-stop how amazing they are from keepers who have the time, the space, the experience and the knowledge to successfully maintain these aquatic buttheads, so of course they attain a sort of cult status in the hobby.

But let's face reality. Cichlids are troublesome fish. IMHO they are best left to keepers who have amassed at least some basic skill at the aquarium game and who have more than one tank just in case. For a first tank, beginners are much better served if they select the easy livebearers, cyprinids, characins, corydoras cats, etc. There's no shame in learning to walk before you run.

Yes, of course there are some exceptions to this rule, but beginners don't seem to want to keep Keyholes; they gravitate to the biggest, nastiest species they can find. They reel with indignation when told that, no, there is not enough room in their "huge" 90 gallon tank for yet another Peacock Bass. The answer they fall back on is "But...I really, really want to..."

Some of them do some research, but it often seems that they aren't looking for hard data or statistics. They'll look here and there, finding source after source after source that all agree their desired stocking is a bad idea...and then when they inevitably find the one website that says "Sure, it'll be fine! I've had that exact same combination for almost a week and they get along great!" well, there ya go! Validation! I knew I could do it! Where's my wallet?

It's gotten to the point where a new thread title that contains the word "stocking" has me scrolling right on past, not even bothering to read it. Just not worth the trouble. You don't buy a 700-pound Harley as your first motorcycle; you don't run a marathon the first day you decide to start exercising; you don't keep a Russian Wolfhound in a 20th-floor bachelor apartment. You just don't.

Cichlids...most of them...almost all of them!...are like that.

Cichlids are stunning but tough, and for beginners, they can turn the whole hobby into stress. It’s smarter to start simple, learn the ropes, and then take on the challenge not jump in just because they look cool.