Solar heating - copper
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Are you saying the water is circulating (mixing) into your tanks or the copper plumbing is lined through your tanks? If the water in the copper pipes is entering your tanks, count on copper poisoning deaths and never being able to keep inverts. If the piping is running through your tanks, there's still the issue with copper poisoning. You'd be better off either sheathing your copper piping in schedule 40 PVC or direct connect the copper piping to PVC pipe. PVC pipe is inert in aquaria.
I wanted to run the water from the tanks, into the panels, and back to the tanks to raise temp.
Copper would be easier, as I have the panels set up now, otherwise would have to build with a pex pipe.
Sounds as though pex is the way I will have to go.....
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Copper would be easier, as I have the panels set up now, otherwise would have to build with a pex pipe.
Sounds as though pex is the way I will have to go.....
Sent from my SGH-I337M using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
All supply lines in my house and most other houses are copper. I drink it as well as millions of other people with copper. I don't see it as any problem for fish. As long as you do regular water changes it should be fine.
You have incomplete info. Copper pipes in the home are continuously depositing minerals along the length of the pipe which eventually stops copper leeching into the water. There have been numerous incidents of fishkeepers writing of having issues with copper levels in new construction homes even though they were on the same municipal water as in their previous older homes. Subjecting fish to a sudden increase in copper levels from a new radiator-type solar heater will cause neurological maladies in fish and hepatic dysfunction in larger predatory fish species and herps. Toxic copper levels will also manifest as sudden-death-syndrome due to damaging gill tissue and mucosal tissues. Slight copper level increases will kill off inverts.
Copper toxicity is more prevalent in areas with acidic water since there are less to no limestone minerals depositing on the lining of the plumbing.
Comparing what happens in aquaria to what happens in a human is not a prudent approach. How many aquarists 'top off' their tanks between water changes. Copper doesn't dissipate. Replenishing evaporated water adds additional copper to the system.
The water in my area is alkaline and my home is over 30 years old. Even so, I still use a 5-stage water filtration system for my aquariums (actually, the whole house) because I choose to fully protect my $40K+ live fish investments.
From the niversity of Florida, Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences Dept:
Copper in Marine Aquaculture and Aquarium Systems
Roy P. E. Yanong2
Introduction
Copper has been used effectively for many years to control algae and fish parasites in freshwater and marine systems. Because copper does not discolor the water, it is a preferred treatment for use in display aquaria. Water chemistry and other environmental factors will determine how much copper will be biologically available and for how long.
However, the copper concentrations required for effective treatment may be acutely toxic for some species of finfish and are lethal for most invertebrates. Chronic copper exposure will also adversely affect fish health. Sublethal and toxic levels of copper damage gills and other tissues of fish, and also are known to depress the immune system. Because of all these concerns, it is important to understand how copper works and how copper availability is affected by the environment in which it is used (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988).
Copper Toxicity to Non-Targeted (non-parasitic) Organisms
Animal Considerations
Some species of fish are highly sensitive to copper and will die even at concentrations below therapeutic levels (i.e., less than 0.15 mg/L free copper). Other considerations that will affect survival include acclimation period (exposing fish to slowly increasing concentrations of free copper over the course of several days until the treatment target concentration is reached), as well as age or life stage of the fish. In one study, larvae acclimated to copper exposure more quickly than juvenile and adult fish and had better survival (Sellin et al. 2005). In some fish species, younger fish are more resistant to copper toxicity than older fish; in others, the reverse is true (Howarth and Sprague 1978; Pickering and Lazorchak 1995; Furata et al. 2008). Copper will damage a number of organs and systems, including the gills, liver, kidney, immune system, and nervous system (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988). Gills appear to be the most affected organ during acute toxicity, and will become blunt and thickened and lose ability to regulate body fluid ion concentrations. Copper also suppresses immune system function, and can affect the lateral line of fish. Prolonged copper exposure also may result in reduced growth (Wong et al. 1999). During toxicity, in addition to general signs of distress (e.g., increased respiration), fish may display darkening and behavioral abnormalities: lethargy, incoordination, problems with posture and balance, and, eventually, death (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988).
Most invertebrates are highly sensitive to copper and will not survive a copper treatment. If systems with invertebrates are to be treated, the invertebrates should be moved and not returned until Cu2+ concentrations are 0.01 mg/L or less, but ideally zero (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988). Copper levels should be monitored for some time after treatment, because copper bound to substrate (e.g., coral, shells, decorations) may be released if pH drops or other changes in water quality parameters occur (see Environmental Factors below).
Removing Copper from the System
High quality, activated carbon effectively removes dissolved free copper from systems. One recommendation is to place a separate filtration unit containing fresh, activated charcoal at the rate of 170 grams per 57 liters of water (about 0.375 lbs per 15 gallons) on a system to be purged of copper (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988). Once all the water is believed to have cycled through the carbon, test for free copper concentration. If chelated copper has been used, water changes will be necessary. Dolomite may also be used, if it is removed afterward (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988). If tests continue to show a high free copper concentration, a complete water change may still be required to remove copper from the water. Copper levels should be monitored throughout this process and for several weeks afterward, in case copper that was previously bound to substrate or complexed in solution, is released as free copper.
Copper toxicity is more prevalent in areas with acidic water since there are less to no limestone minerals depositing on the lining of the plumbing.
Comparing what happens in aquaria to what happens in a human is not a prudent approach. How many aquarists 'top off' their tanks between water changes. Copper doesn't dissipate. Replenishing evaporated water adds additional copper to the system.
The water in my area is alkaline and my home is over 30 years old. Even so, I still use a 5-stage water filtration system for my aquariums (actually, the whole house) because I choose to fully protect my $40K+ live fish investments.
From the niversity of Florida, Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences Dept:
Copper in Marine Aquaculture and Aquarium Systems
Roy P. E. Yanong2
Introduction
Copper has been used effectively for many years to control algae and fish parasites in freshwater and marine systems. Because copper does not discolor the water, it is a preferred treatment for use in display aquaria. Water chemistry and other environmental factors will determine how much copper will be biologically available and for how long.
However, the copper concentrations required for effective treatment may be acutely toxic for some species of finfish and are lethal for most invertebrates. Chronic copper exposure will also adversely affect fish health. Sublethal and toxic levels of copper damage gills and other tissues of fish, and also are known to depress the immune system. Because of all these concerns, it is important to understand how copper works and how copper availability is affected by the environment in which it is used (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988).
Copper Toxicity to Non-Targeted (non-parasitic) Organisms
Animal Considerations
Some species of fish are highly sensitive to copper and will die even at concentrations below therapeutic levels (i.e., less than 0.15 mg/L free copper). Other considerations that will affect survival include acclimation period (exposing fish to slowly increasing concentrations of free copper over the course of several days until the treatment target concentration is reached), as well as age or life stage of the fish. In one study, larvae acclimated to copper exposure more quickly than juvenile and adult fish and had better survival (Sellin et al. 2005). In some fish species, younger fish are more resistant to copper toxicity than older fish; in others, the reverse is true (Howarth and Sprague 1978; Pickering and Lazorchak 1995; Furata et al. 2008). Copper will damage a number of organs and systems, including the gills, liver, kidney, immune system, and nervous system (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988). Gills appear to be the most affected organ during acute toxicity, and will become blunt and thickened and lose ability to regulate body fluid ion concentrations. Copper also suppresses immune system function, and can affect the lateral line of fish. Prolonged copper exposure also may result in reduced growth (Wong et al. 1999). During toxicity, in addition to general signs of distress (e.g., increased respiration), fish may display darkening and behavioral abnormalities: lethargy, incoordination, problems with posture and balance, and, eventually, death (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988).
Most invertebrates are highly sensitive to copper and will not survive a copper treatment. If systems with invertebrates are to be treated, the invertebrates should be moved and not returned until Cu2+ concentrations are 0.01 mg/L or less, but ideally zero (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988). Copper levels should be monitored for some time after treatment, because copper bound to substrate (e.g., coral, shells, decorations) may be released if pH drops or other changes in water quality parameters occur (see Environmental Factors below).
Removing Copper from the System
High quality, activated carbon effectively removes dissolved free copper from systems. One recommendation is to place a separate filtration unit containing fresh, activated charcoal at the rate of 170 grams per 57 liters of water (about 0.375 lbs per 15 gallons) on a system to be purged of copper (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988). Once all the water is believed to have cycled through the carbon, test for free copper concentration. If chelated copper has been used, water changes will be necessary. Dolomite may also be used, if it is removed afterward (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988). If tests continue to show a high free copper concentration, a complete water change may still be required to remove copper from the water. Copper levels should be monitored throughout this process and for several weeks afterward, in case copper that was previously bound to substrate or complexed in solution, is released as free copper.
Very interesting oddball...
Very interesting.
I built a 1200 sq/ft addition to my home about 5 years ago. All tanks were moved, and I lost many fish very slowly over the period. Never really pinpointed the issue, and had to install filtration including a commercial to system from spectra pure.
Learn something everyday, would not have though the new copper pipes could maybe be the culprit.
I will built a 300 gallon box today to store the warm water which will then allow for a heat exchanger made of pex to transfer the heat into the fish systems.
Thank you
Sent from my SGH-I337M using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
Very interesting.
I built a 1200 sq/ft addition to my home about 5 years ago. All tanks were moved, and I lost many fish very slowly over the period. Never really pinpointed the issue, and had to install filtration including a commercial to system from spectra pure.
Learn something everyday, would not have though the new copper pipes could maybe be the culprit.
I will built a 300 gallon box today to store the warm water which will then allow for a heat exchanger made of pex to transfer the heat into the fish systems.
Thank you
Sent from my SGH-I337M using MonsterAquariaNetwork App