Something going wrong in 60g tank need advice

[Horsechick]

Ok, so my sister has decided to try her hand at fish keeping. She has two tanks, one is a 60g in her main living area, the other is? Maybe 40-50g and sits in her son's room. The one in her son's room is pretty neglected. It needs water added, just has some tetras and danios running around in there, she says she hasn't changed its water and just tops it off here and there.

Her 60g had a few angels (small and crappy looking with bent fins, she's having trouble finding a good LFS and she didn't realize they were damaged) a pleco, two loaches, and I think a few barbs or something. She wanted to grow plants, so she has florite under her gravel, she ordered a bunch of plants on line, git her tank going, I gave her some flourish root tabs, etc. She takes good care of her 60g, changing the water weekly.

Slowly but surely all her plants have died off except for I think two crypts. Her fish have been dying slowly but surely too, and her pleco recently died so she's down to one half dollar sized angel that should have been culled before ever reaching the shop and two 3-4" rope looking loaches. I've been telling her to check her water, and she finally bought some dip strips at the store and tested. Her city water is 8-8.5 pH and her gH and kH are 240 and 180. Her nitrates are 20 and everything else is zero.

I had her check it out of the tap, the strips are supposed to be instant, they started off looking like a pH of 7 but as it sat it rose to 8-8.5 again. So I suspect that there is some fluctuations there and that spike coukd be why the tank that she doesnt do WC on is fine but the other has issues. Intold her to age her water before she does a water change and to get African Cichlids because they like her water.

She is also battling an algea issue. The guy at pet supplies plus told her it is blue green algea, that it is really a bacteria and that the algea could be what is killing her fish. So she bought a different HOB filter because hers is missing some kind of holster thing. He told her to drain her tank, treat the gravel with peroxide and let the gravel dry before filling it up and starting from scratch.

Well she forgot to buy a net at PSP so she went to her LFS (who has an impressive salt water selection and a huge tank of massive Oscars but is otherwise lacking with a leaky roof and poor looking fresh water fish, and where she bought the damn angels that are deformed). That LFS tested her water, told her she has high phosphates, and that she needed to buy a water treatment baggy that goes into her filter (I want to say chem clear or something like that). But she returned it when she realized it only treats 25 gallons.

So, any ideas what is going on and what she should do? I suspect the fluorite could be causing the high phosphates? I told her to take out the gravel and get pool filter sand, start over, get Cichlids and age her water... She's attached to the gravel apparently due to the cost.

This is the algea issue on her gravel, she says she keeps vacuuming and doing WC but it comes right back. It is just on the gravel and plants, not up in water column.

 

[Horsechick]

Oh she also had algea eaters and they died as well. She's feeling very discouraged because she's only had it running less than a year, maybe 9-10mo and has invested trying to "do it right" but not having the tank she pictured.

I told her most plants won't tolerate her pH because that was my experience but maybe you guys can suggest some hard water loving plants.

 

[GamerChick5567]

That's definitely cyanobacteria on the gravel, IMO it would be best to start the tank over instead of wasting money on filter inserts that might not work. Put the fish in buckets with an airstone. Then drain all the water and scoop the gravel and rocks into another bucket (or just in the tank). Use peroxide or a light bleach solution, then rinse really well and dry it completely out again before you add it back. For the plants just spot treat them with the peroxide. Crypts are a pain though and might melt. I had it in a 5 gallon betta tank once and that worked well. You should probably do the same thing for the filter too. Just be aware of the cycle, you will have to start it all over again and you may have to do a fish in cycle if she doesn't have a place to put the fish. Also you may want to test the city's tapwater too. If it happened out of nowhere maybe the city did something? I would pick up a freshwater master test kit if you guys don't have it, it's much better than strips.

For replacement fish, maybe have her try livebearers since they like a high pH and are dirt cheap. I see them for less than a buck on craigslist sometimes.

As far as the plants go, Vals are one of the hardier plants. I would get a bunch. They always seem to do good in my hard water and can tolerate low light. Bacopa also seems to grow pretty well too. Hornwort and java ferns have also worked well for me. Depending on the amount of light she should also be dosing ferts and/or co2 to outcompete any algae.

PS. Make her kid change the water in the 40 gallon (or he's grounded maybe) haha. It should be changed at least weekly.

 

[Horsechick]

Thanks for the advice I will send her copies!!! I've never had the stuff so it is a bit creepy to see.

I was not aware live bearers liked high pH? I will let her know that too, but truthfully it's an awfully large tank for some sword fish and platties. I would even give her some convicts and order an aquabid order for her, she will have the fish. At this point she doesn't want more until she knows they won't die. It is heartbreaking to know something died because you couldn't provide the right environment...

So fluorite or eco complete won't add phosphates to the water? She was dosing with flourish and excel and has a plant light. She cut the light way back due to this blue green algea that she thought was real algea. I'm unaware of all the particulars. I'm 2-3 hrs away and only saw the tank on Thanksgiving. I've been the fish keeper our whole lives but I've never ran into this, even in my planted tank...

(I agree on the kid except he's 6 and well, I think she's lucky he hasn't decided to feed them on his own).

 

[GamerChick5567]

I haven't used that particular brand of substrate so I don't know if it was for sure the cause or not. Maybe if there was some other nutrient out of whack when she added the fluorite it brought it on? Perhaps if the plants either had it already, or melted from transplant shock and decayed that could be the cause? Maybe there also wasn't enough water movement in the tank? It could be any number of things.

Also, if it occurs again after cleaning, I think nuking the tank with antibacterial erythromycin medicine works but that would be a last resort.

 

[Horsechick]

Thanks so much!!!! I will pass it on.

If her tap water has the phosphates, her only choice is a filter that removes phosphates right?

 

[duanes]

Agree live bearers are a good beginner choice with that pH. Some get quite large and would look fine in that tank, Sailfins come to mind, reaching 7". They also eat algae, although I doubt they will touch cyanobacteria.
Crypts can handle her water, as will Java fern, Anubius and Vallisneria, (they can also take low light).
And low light may have been why the other plants failed, but not Crypts, and why cyanobacteria proliferates (they do like phosphate, and lowlight is not a problem for cyan). For plants to outcompete algae of any type, many must be put in right away, if only a few are started, the cyano will win out and kill the plants.
Some sailfish mollies.

Anubius, Java fern, and all did quite well in my similarly hard water, ender fairly low light

By the way, most tetras, and angelfish do poorly in that water, if the LFS is tied to the same supplier, it may be one of the reasons they look bad from the start.