South American Cichlid Substrate Question

[NewCichlidTanker68]

Hi All,

Thinking about setting up a new tank for South American Dwarf Cichlids and some community fish, and live plants, and was hoping to get some advice. I already have the tank, it was a neighbors and they kind of let it go and eventually it was empty. He said he broke it all down about 6 months ago. It's 75 gallons and has an Oase canister filter, a heater, gravel (its small, and pretty fine, but is gravel not sand) and a LED light bar. He had live plants in it when it was up and running. I was thinking of making it a planted community tank, with 2-3 cichlids as the centerpiece fish, and researched which fish might be OK with live pants. Here's the short list of fish I'd like to learn more about and consider Specifically, thinking about a few different fish: Bolivian Rams, Dwarf Flag Cichlids, Apistogramma , Keyhole Cichlids.

I've read that many like to sift and prefer sand. It's pretty consistently listed in the preferred set up on many things I've been finding when researching these fish. That said, I've watched literally dozens of YouTube video's and it seems like a lot of people do have similar gravel to what my tank came with. Gravel much larger than what I have. Is it wrong to have these fish without true" sand"? I really like what it came with, and would prefer t to have to toss it and buy something g else. Are there specific dwarf cichlids that are better with gravel than others? Also, the plants. It seems than the fish I listed are consistently listed among those that are OK with plants, and part of that explanation seems to be they dig less than the cichlids might. The list was also partially created because most of those are considered appropriate for a beginner.

Lastly, when I get the tank set up and it cylces through, I will be really patient and add the fish slowly, but what should the order be? start with some schooling fish (some tetras, and/or rasboras, cory's) and then the cichlids? Or is it best to get the cichlids early?

 

[Gourami Swami]

Hi All,

Thinking about setting up a new tank for South American Dwarf Cichlids and some community fish, and live plants, and was hoping to get some advice. I already have the tank, it was a neighbors and they kind of let it go and eventually it was empty. He said he broke it all down about 6 months ago. It's 75 gallons and has an Oase canister filter, a heater, gravel (its small, and pretty fine, but is gravel not sand) and a LED light bar. He had live plants in it when it was up and running. I was thinking of making it a planted community tank, with 2-3 cichlids as the centerpiece fish, and researched which fish might be OK with live pants. Here's the short list of fish I'd like to learn more about and consider Specifically, thinking about a few different fish: Bolivian Rams, Dwarf Flag Cichlids, Apistogramma , Keyhole Cichlids.

I've read that many like to sift and prefer sand. It's pretty consistently listed in the preferred set up on many things I've been finding when researching these fish. That said, I've watched literally dozens of YouTube video's and it seems like a lot of people do have similar gravel to what my tank came with. Gravel much larger than what I have. Is it wrong to have these fish without true" sand"? I really like what it came with, and would prefer t to have to toss it and buy something g else. Are there specific dwarf cichlids that are better with gravel than others? Also, the plants. It seems than the fish I listed are consistently listed among those that are OK with plants, and part of that explanation seems to be they dig less than the cichlids might. The list was also partially created because most of those are considered appropriate for a beginner.

Lastly, when I get the tank set up and it cylces through, I will be really patient and add the fish slowly, but what should the order be? start with some schooling fish (some tetras, and/or rasboras, cory's) and then the cichlids? Or is it best to get the cichlids early?

You can keep all the fish you mentioned on gravel, but the rams are mikrogeophagus (micro earth eater) and do appreciate some sand to sift, though it may not be 100% necessary. Apistogramma and keyholes, flag cichlids are OK on gravel. I find apistogramma to be the most delicate of the bunch, really need soft low pH water, while the others are more adaptable. All of these fish do better in warmer water, around 82*. Some other similar fish to look at that don't need sand would be small Acaras like Laetacara araguaiae, and also Discrossus species.

On the order to add, I typically add the dither fish first, and then the cichlids. The cichlids you mentioned are all pretty mellow, so this isn't a big deal, they could all be added at once if you want.

 

[NewCichlidTanker68]

Thank you very much for the reply and the information. I can't begin to tell you how helpful that is. I've really tried to find answers, because I want to do this right, and in the best interest of the animals. I think avoiding the Apisto will make sense. and thanks for the suggestions, I will research those for sure.
I don't need them all, just trying to find the 2-3 that will round out the tank. I'm trying to balance the water parameters ( PH, hardness, temp) with fish that get along, but want variety, and fish that use different parts of the aquarium.

Any suggestions for the dither fish or the other community inhabitants? Rummy nose look good, I see them in a lot of community tanks with the types of dwarf cichlids we're discussing. Any Gourami's that you'd suggest (give your user name!). Any clean up crew ideas? Sounds like shrimp would get eaten, but Im guessing cory's, any other ideas?

THANK YOU!

 

[duanes]

I find it interesting to view actual photos of habitat the species wanted come from,
I study and take pics of the habitat the fish I keep come from.


Above is a river in Colombia, where some of those species you mention come from.
Below, the substrate in a river where the fish I collect come from

 

[jjohnwm]

It's interesting, yes...but I think that the vast majority of people would look at those ^ pics and then decide that there is no way they want an aquarium that looks like that. I know I wouldn't. Almost all my tanks are strictly for my own viewing and enjoyment, but that doesn't mean I want them to look like a muddy brown creek...regardless of how "natural" that may be. Most fish tanks are largely decorative; we want them to look good, which is not at all the same as looking "natural".

Take a picture sometime of some magnificently decorated and planted "natural" tank. Then try to find an example in nature that looks like that, in the same few square feet of space. You will grow old and die without achieving success. The difference in scale makes it impossible.

That's okay, the fish have no sense of aesthetics; they simply want an environment that allows them to live as they are evolved to live. Geos and many others want sand to sift; many or most fish want some cover and concealment provided by plants, wood, etc., active fast swimmers want open space to move freely, and so forth.

I personally prefer fine subsrates like pool filter sand rather than gravel. The coarser the substrate...i.e. gravel...the larger the interstices between individual grains and the easier for food, fish/plant waste and other debris to fall in between, unseen and out of reach of the fish. This stuff sits on top of sand and is easier to see and remove, by both the fish and the fishkeeper. And of course many fish are adapted to sift and search through the substrate or even burrow through it looking for food...Geos, Corydoras cats, Loaches, Goldfish and a host of others. I simply don't understand why one would set up a tank with the intention of keeping species like that, and then fail to provide them the opportunity to perform that simple action that is an integral part of how they live.

It isn't that difficult to create an environment that satisfies both the fish and the fishkeeper. Then we are freed up to worry about 0.1 pH discrepancies and temperatures that must be maintained unflinchingly to the 10th of a degree and creating both slack water and a fast flow within the confines of a 4-foot box and forcing incompatible fish to live with each other...and all the other silly fun stuff over which we fret and fuss...none of which is really "natural".