substrate as a bio media

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kamikaziechameleon

kamikaziechameleon

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Sep 23, 2010
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Ok so I'm a long time fish keeper first time glass bottom tank keeper.

Since going glass bottom I've noticed that maintaining good water quality is more difficult, requiring nearly double the filtration per tank as with gravel or crushed coral.

Ontop of that the elasticity of your water quality seems way outa wack without substrate, meaning if I clean a filter the added bio in the sponge(and there is beneficial bacteria in there) that is loss makes a honest to goodness difference in my water quality.

My one tank that has over 40 inches of fish in it has gravel and no algae bloom from water quality fluctuation etc. My one identically sized tank with identical filter capacity has no gravel bottom and less than half the fish and it is puke green even after a water change and lights off for all but 2 hrs a day, all from the fluctuating water quality that I attribute to the lack of substrate.

I've never suffered water quality issues from cleaning filter media prior. I would wash my bio media and all. Now I'm terrified to do so. This won't be a long term problem as the super sump that will be used on all my larger troublesome glass bottom breeding tanks but as is I would previously use one AC 110 on a 100 gallon tank. Now I have 2 and 2 power heads on sponge filters and still worry its not enough.

Maybe I'm weird please correct me if my observations are off but I was surprised by this and wondered if anyone else on here had a similar experience.
 
I think having gravel is doing more harm than good. All the waste will collect in between the gravel and if you don't keep up with water changes, you'll be in trouble.

I think instead of gravel, you can give the BB more surface area by putting in more decorations like plants and driftwood. I always put a bunch of rocks, plants and some sand from an established tank into a new tank to seed it asap. Also, I'd go with a very thin layer of pool filter sand instead of a big layer of gravel. That way you have extra surface for BB and a nicer look than a barebotto tank, but your tank stays cleaner bc the fish poop has less places to get stuck than with a thick bed of grvel. If you're still having trouble, I would add another filter or add a bunch of decorations from an established tank.
 
kamikaziechameleon said:
Ontop of that the elasticity of your water quality seems way outa wack without substrate, meaning if I clean a filter the added bio in the sponge(and there is beneficial bacteria in there) that is loss makes a honest to goodness difference in my water quality.
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I rinse my filter media regularly in tank water and never see ammonia, if you are seeing ammonia you are doing something wrong like rinsing in tap water or rinsing everything at once, or maybe the filters are just not mature enough. I don't rinse all my media at once, just one basket or sponge filter at a time.


My one tank that has over 40 inches of fish in it has gravel and no algae bloom from water quality fluctuation etc. My one identically sized tank with identical filter capacity has no gravel bottom and less than half the fish and it is puke green even after a water change and lights off for all but 2 hrs a day, all from the fluctuating water quality that I attribute to the lack of substrate.
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I doubt you are seeing an algae bloom from lack of substrate. Yes you need more bio filtration if you don't have gravel but once cycled, bare bottom tanks are very easy to maintain and keep very high water quality IMO.
 
i dont know how you can say having more gravel is doing more harm than good when by the OP own observations say otherwise.

I think it makes sense since having a substrate would constitute a very large surface area for bb to grow on. it's pretty much the area of the bottom of your tank X how deep your substrate is.
 
This is not 1981, we don't need to rely on gravel for our bio. Again if you have the proper filtration then gravel will cause more problems than it will cure. There is a reason why bare bottom is the preferred method in breeding and growing out.
 
Since water changes are water changes and happen on the same regularity and I sift gravel as you would suck up poop that has formed a pile in the corner I think that gravel making a mess is a bit of an exaggeration. Someone above states that "with proper filtration" that is kinda what the whole post is about, the change in what is "proper filtration".

As for the algae bloom I've always had those in tanks(as long as I've kept fish) when ammonia is high or water parameters are a little out of wack don't really know why beyond that.

All I know is that a tank on a weekly water change that has been tested going from gravel at my parents house to no gravel at my house needs more than twice as much filtration to maintain water clarity and parameters.

Other instance, same sized tank with gravel and not, both filters identically aged/cleaned at the same time and the no gravel tank has algae issues with half the fish.(tanks setup at the same time too.) I've not had a water testing kit for long but it sure has come in handy documenting this.

I understand that the reason you keep tanks substrateless on large scale systems and setups is for simplicity, didn't ever think there was a legitimate biological reason else substrate would be frowned upon pretty widely in the trade. I go without substrate because there are quite a few cichlids that will burry when you go into the tank to net them this becomes hazardous because they will wedge themselves in places that they can't escape. I had crushed/lost a few cichlids this way and decided if I was to breed/move fish allot I would have to lose the substrate if possible.

EDIT:

I don't care for substrate that is too deep either it becomes a trap for nasty stuff and doesn't add anything to the tank. 2 inches with cichlids is optimal IMHO.
 
clekchau said:
no substrate is not an option for me, if anything i would tile the bottom or something, but for now i'll take out some of the substrate.
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got nothing against bare bottom tanks (I only have one tank with substrate out of my current 16) Just wondering if anyone else notices the different filtration requirements(all other things being equal) besides me.
 
You can never have to much external filtration. In my 300 I used to have like 5+" of coral sand. Only because previously it was a salt tank and just went with it when I switched to freshwater. Never had any issue with my water with it but when fish kicked up the sand it get cloudy. So I removed all the sand and went for awhile with no substrate. I really didn't like this look and my fish seemed more disturbed by no gravel by trying to swim down on the glass a lot so I went with 1" of gravel only. If you have more then 1 external filter like 2 or more you can alternate the cleaning so your bacteria doesn't suffer your water quality. I have a big wetdry sump plus 4 large canisters in my system. I don't rinse them all at the same time I alternate cleaning them.
 
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