Sump not working effectively help please

[Leon fish]

Hi all, need some advice please on changing my sump set up as i dont think its working as effectively as it should be.
Current set up is -
65cm deep
105cm length
45 cm high

1st chamber (from top to bottom)
Filter sock 200 micron
Filter floss
Jap matting
Fine, medium, coarse foams
Alfagrog
Bio balls
Ceramic noodles

1st baffle before second chamber
Fine foams

2nd chamber
Approx 40l of k1 in moving bed
1l of seachem matrix

3rd chamber
Return pump to tank

I am not sure how much alfragrog, bio balls or ceramic noodles i have but there is A LOT packed in from front to back (65cm deep)

1st issue -is the 1st chamber packed too tightly with too much media to allow for proper flow of water

2nd issue - i dont think the k1 chamber is working properly as there is a lot of debris at the bottom of this

3rd issue - should i remove the k1and put all the media from the 1st chamber in here instead
And then leave the 1st chamber for a settlement area for the debris with only foams.

4h issue - quite a bit of debris in final chamber with return pump - should this be here?

Its for an 800litre tank for large fish

Any info would be greatly appreciated
Cheers
Sam

 

[duanes]

In any sump, the more chambers you have, the more dead spots you create, and dead spots tend accumulate debris. Sometimes dependent on GPH flow thru the sump.
That said, a sump is only as efficient as to how often the media is cleaned, and purged of gunk.
Mechical media like filter socks, and floss need to be rinsed out regularly, maybe every couple days, depending on fish load.
I shake out mechanical media in old water with every water change (every other day or so)
and also shake out bio media almost as often, to reduce gunk build up that may tend to smother the aerobic beneficial bacteria living on the media.
In stead of chambers, I keep biomedia in mesh bags, to facilitate ease of this kind of maintenance, and enhance flow thru.
And in your last pic, that amount of detritus in your sump is negligible and normal.

 

[Leon fish]

Thanks -if you see the third pic bottom left corner - you will notice a good amount of brown debris undrr and around thr alfagrog. Is this harmful to the filtration? Can worms result from this?

 

[esoxlucius]

I think most people try to cram as much as they can in their sumps believing that's what you need to do to keep huge colonies of BB. This just leads to flow problems, dead spots and spending way more time on your sump at maintainance time than you need to. The whole idea of a sump, if you have it set up right, is that they are basically maintainance free.

If i'm honest yours looks cluttered and in my opinion, heavily stocked or not, you can afford to lose a load of stuff down there. Mechanical filtration can be filter floss changed out once or twice a week (literally a 10 second job). Bio can be whatever you like, but if you go with small stuff like ceramic rings for example, bag it up for ease at maintainance time. Your bio can be rinsed out in tank water a couple of times a year (easy if bagged).

The less clutter you have the better flow you have. Less clutter and good flow equals no dead spots. Less clutter, good flow, no dead spots equals prime conditions for BB.

If you decide to drastically reduce and simplify your set up DON'T do it all at once, drag it out over a few weekly water changes. If you're heavily stocked and you go in there like a bull in a china shop your parameters might go berserk.

 

[duanes]

I agree with esoxlucius, that lack of clutter makes for much better flow, being one of the most important factors. The bio-benificials work best in an aerobic environment (one of the reasons I seldom compartmentalize sumps).
My sumps are almost stark compared to others I see, using only a filter sock or two, a bag of bio-media, and some floating stuff.



I do sometimes use two different sumps per bank of tanks, one being more of a planted refugium to help soak up nitrate. Mine usually have 3-5 tanks per sump.

 

[Leon fish]

Thanks guys very helpful info.
I think i will bag up the media as the first chamber has such poor flow as there are huge dead spots with large debris build up and the water just passes through so slowly.

What kind of speed should i be aiming for in terms of water passing through?

Can i mix the media in the bags as oppose to seperate them (so have a mix of alfagrog, cermaic noodles and bio balls in each bag?)

Can i also move half of this media once its bagged in the k1 chamber? As id rather not lose the media but instead put it in the centre chamber?
And also what bags do you recommend i know they are called media bags but is there a specific bag or size?
Thanks

 

[duanes]

The average recommended rate is 5 times the gallons of the tank and sump combined per hour. I usually like to almost double that in my tanks, so I might run a 3600 gph pump on a 200 gallon tank.
The fish I generally keep are riverine, some rheophillic (medium sized cichlids) , so heavier current, directional flow, is normal.
If your fish are endemic to calmer or stagnant waters the average recommendation is probably closer to what you require.


You can see by how the plants bend in the current, my preference for flow.

 

[Leon fish]

Can i mix the media in the bags as oppose to seperate them (so have a mix of alfagrog, cermaic noodles and bio balls in each bag?)

Can i also move half of this media once its bagged in the k1 chamber? As id rather not lose the media but instead put it in the centre chamber?

 

[duanes]

Bio-media can be mixed, as long flow isn't impeded, by becoming impacted.
All biomedia is just a surface for beneficial bacteria to live on.
You can also put it in different places within the sump, as long as you don't dry it out during the move, by letting it sit out of water very long.

 

[Leon fish]

Okay cheers
What do you mean by - as long flow isn't impeded, by becoming impacted.