Sump, Plants, and Surface Agitation

[edtriou]

How much surface agitation is needed, beyond a good size wet/dry sump?

Here's some background on my setup:

• Tank, 210 gallon, 55 gallon wet/dry sump, 7x turnover
• Plants, moderately planted, low/med light, dry ferts, no CO2
• Fish, ideally nearly or fully stocked

Ideally I want to be able to keep all 3; fish, plants, sump. Problem is I've read mixed posts on agitation for CO2 for plants vs. O2 for fish, and little on the combination of all 3. Currently my return lines are (6) 1/2" elbows (1' apart on the top) fully under the water, but 1/2" from the top to create reasonable surface agitation.

So if I'm not dosing CO2, does the agitation really hurt the plants? Do I really need the agitation for the fish anyway, given good flow through the wet/dry? Instead of guessing, I want to do the best for plants and fish, and learn from your guy's expertise and experience.

Thanks
Ed

 

[evercl92]

If you don't ever plan on injecting CO2, your sump will be fine assuming you stay low/med light. The agitation caused by the sump drives off excess gasses, in order to achieve equilibrium between the air and the water. If you are injecting CO2, then the amount of CO2 in the water is going to be higher than normal and the agitation will force CO2 out. If you are not injecting CO2, the agitation will actually be helpful. As the plants use the CO2 in the water, the level of CO2 in the water is going to decrease. The agitation will pull CO2 from the atmosphere in order to try to make them level again.

The same idea goes for O2 in the water as well.

As tall as (I assume) your tank is, you'll have to put a lot of money into lights in order to get much above medium-lighting.

What plants / fish did you have in mind for this project?

 

[edtriou]

If you don't ever plan on injecting CO2, your sump will be fine assuming you stay low/med light. The agitation caused by the sump drives off excess gasses, in order to achieve equilibrium between the air and the water. If you are injecting CO2, then the amount of CO2 in the water is going to be higher than normal and the agitation will force CO2 out. If you are not injecting CO2, the agitation will actually be helpful. As the plants use the CO2 in the water, the level of CO2 in the water is going to decrease. The agitation will pull CO2 from the atmosphere in order to try to make them level again.

The same idea goes for O2 in the water as well.

Thanks, very helpful. Never looked at it in terms of equilibrium, makes perfect sense. In fact, glad I asked otherwise I would have been attempting to balance the two, instead of really understanding agitation helps both.

What plants / fish did you have in mind for this project?

As for fish, they will come from a fully-stocked 75. My wife has feed/watched them for some time, so no starting over, yet anyway. Currently mostly a barb tank; 8" T-barbs, school of tigers, albinos, golds, cherry. Although then theirs the 'motley crew' of; loaches, plecos, ottos. The clown loaches as the most enjoyable, as they seem to think they are a tiger barb species. They were both raised together small, same colors, and now they school together, everywhere, grin.

As for plants, I just received them. I decided upon; swords, dwarf sagittaria, java fern/moss, and crypts. Of course, I didn't mention that I also got ludwigia, grin. I know, I know, but I've surprisingly been able to grow it previously in low/med light, it looses its red color, but I love the texture of the green leaves. There in the fishless cycle right now, loving the ammonia.

Ed

 

[evercl92]

I've seen clown loaches school with tiger barbs before, looks kinda cool to me. Goofy fish.

Even though you're doing fishless cycling (which I find a waste of time), I'd still prob pull the filter from your 75 and run it in tandem with the wet/dry for a couple weeks.

Post some pic's if you get a chance.