Swollen Ray, what is up?

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hereticlosmorte

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Mar 1, 2010
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Ontario, Canada
i recently installed a water conditioner in my home that uses ceramic beads to trap hardness and produce soft water without the use of salt.

i did a water change to my ray tank and my male ray has swollen right up. he's 2x as thick in the body as he should be, it looks like a person who is allergic to bees that gets stung.

i remember someone having their black ray swell up like this previously, but i can't find the thread anywhere for the life of me. if i recall, the ray eventually went back to its normal size.

if anyone has any idea as to what could be happening as i'm stumped at the present moment, it would be helpful. or if you are the OP of the previous thread, any personal experience you could relay would be helpful!

the female is fine, her normal size, normal activity and eating habits.

this is what he normally looks like, minus the white piece of tilapia.
IMG00326-20120220-2246.jpg


this is what he is looking like now. notice the swollen body, claspers, spiracles and eyes are shorter to body.
IMG00377-20120526-2119.jpg

IMG00376-20120526-2119.jpg

IMG00375-20120526-2118.jpg
 
Was this the first water change after the change in softener?
If so, what percentage did you change?

Assuming first change and decent percentage, I'd guess the ray is having trouble balancing the fluid in its body with the water around it - i.e. osmotic stress/shock. If that's what it is, it's maybe kinda strange that one did better than the other but they're living things not machines so..

If you're saying your old softener left salt in the water and the new one doesn't, it may help him if you add some salt to the tank to return conditions closer to how they would've been before.

This is just me guessing. I'm a software engineer not a biologist so bear that in mind..


I know the thread you're talking about, it was a pair of P14 pups where one became swollen and eventually returned to normal. Spotfin or Fishdog or someone. I've got a lousy memory for names.
 
Was a thread started by keepinfish. He had a P14 that swelled up. If you click on his name you can search his started threads.
 
PeteLockwood said:
Was this the first water change after the change in softener?
If so, what percentage did you change?

i originally only added 20 gallons of water to the sump portion of my system. the tank is 300gal and sump is a 90gal tank, i keep the sump at about 45gal full.

Assuming first change and decent percentage, I'd guess the ray is having trouble balancing the fluid in its body with the water around it - i.e. osmotic stress/shock. If that's what it is, it's maybe kinda strange that one did better than the other but they're living things not machines so..

If you're saying your old softener left salt in the water and the new one doesn't, it may help him if you add some salt to the tank to return conditions closer to how they would've been before.

i didn't have any water altering systems setup in my home before this. no salt in my system previously, nor does this conditioner use salt to make the water soft.

This is just me guessing. I'm a software engineer not a biologist so bear that in mind..

it sounds feasible that the male could just be having a harder time getting used to the water than the female. who knows. he's always been more finicky than her.

I know the thread you're talking about, it was a pair of P14 pups where one became swollen and eventually returned to normal. Spotfin or Fishdog or someone. I've got a lousy memory for names.
Click to expand...

Raymann88 said:
Below is one of the thread about his male P14. As well you could PM him.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?438855-New-thread-p14-is-very-swollen-Video
Click to expand...

thanks raymann

scott s said:
Any live foods or new tank mates?
Click to expand...

no live foods or tank mates at all. they are fed tilapia as the main part of their diet.

thanks guys for the responses. i am going to just sit and let the ray do its thing as there's not much else i can do for it at this point. i will watch it and hopefully it goes back to normal just like keepin's P14.
 
I agree with Pete, I would either try to get the water back to how it was or leave it a few days...maybe dilute a little back to where you were.

This is just another reason why I would not mess around with hardness or ph shifting. If the water softener was not designed and tested with fish in mind then I personally would not use it....especially on rays for the first time...I would use a cheap fish (poor thing)
 
Oh. Sorry. I mis-read the first time round. Although my same instinct would apply, that it's the change in the water chemistry that the ray is having trouble with - harder to softer, just ignore my prior bit re. salt.

You said you initially tried 20 gals, I'm not clear on how large the water change you think could be implicated here was - was that a subsequent change that was larger? Or was it just the 20 gal change you're referring to?

And yes. Keepinfish :D Spotfin. Fishdog. Keepinfish. Told you I'm bad with names.
 
PeteLockwood said:
Oh. Sorry. I mis-read the first time round. Although my same instinct would apply, that it's the change in the water chemistry that the ray is having trouble with - harder to softer, just ignore my prior bit re. salt.

You said you initially tried 20 gals, I'm not clear on how large the water change you think could be implicated here was - was that a subsequent change that was larger? Or was it just the 20 gal change you're referring to?

And yes. Keepinfish :D Spotfin. Fishdog. Keepinfish. Told you I'm bad with names.
Click to expand...

i added about 20gal to my sump as it was getting low from evaporation (90gal sump, i usually put it to around 45gal to increase the water volume in the system.)

i conditioned the water and all.
it looks like it was NOT the new water conditioning equipment, as i have never had an ammonia reading from the tap, but over the last few days i've been getting 1 ppm ammonia readings straight from the source tap, that hasn't passed through the equipment. i tested my neighbor's water too and it contained ammonia as well.
this is new for this area.

sadly, the ray passed away last night/this morning. it's a shame. 10inch male retic almost ready to breed. feels like 3 years down the drain.

RIP Ordo.

female is still not affected, but she has always had a stronger constitution than he has. i will be constantly testing my water to see if the ammonia readings continue, as i will not be able to do any water changes on any of my tanks if they persist.
 
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