Thank you for your response, despite the fact that I've kept and bred a number of hybrids, I know very little about fortune fish. Oh I know them a little, they're what inspired me to get started with hybrids. I did know about RBK's of course, but did not know they were sometimes (oftentimes?) fertile. It's starting to sound like my dream breed isn't so hard to create after all...I never even tried because I thought it couldn't be done. Thats what I get for believing some obscure article I read YEARS ago, and haven't been able to find since. I just gave up before I even tried and went to breeding sb texas, they were my second choice. And also thank you for reminding me about Mr. Chen, after you posted the link I re-read everything he wrote & checked out all his pics very carefully. What I'm after is simple compared to what he was doing. I think I could go a few different routes with the stock I have and it would give me fertile males. Think I'm going to focus on the syn X parrot cross first, if I'm right, and because of Mr. Chen I think I am, a male from this spawn will be fertile, and when crossed to his sibling should give me the breed I want. I may never include pink fene in this strain, I'll still create the fene X redhead female I orginally intended, and test breed her with the 75% male to see what the fry look like. But I've a feeling I'll keep this red syn strain separate. We'll see when the time comes. No one's actually even spawned yet, lol!