Tapajos Red Cobras etc.

[Hadrian]

So, PP, Mt. Pike, Scato, Tazz, SixSpeed and all you who have owned Tapajos Reds or Cobras, or anyone who feels they have the answer to the following question, please clarify. There are two types in my understanding: Tapajos 1s which as juveniles look yellowish with some red trim and grow (male and female) to be deep red pikes and are somewhat slender for Lugubrious. Cobras, are mottled as juveniles and the females get red as adults and the males not so much and the red seems to me lighter than the Tapajos 1s. Both have faint (though the cobras seem stronger) vertical bars on the saddles as adults.

However, the great Oliver Lucanus on his website has a pic of what is titled a Tapajos Red, that to me looks more like an adult Cobra in bloom. He also writes the following:
*
<<<<Crenicichla species “Tapajos”,Red Pike Cichlid
Friday, February 23, 2001
*
Also imported as the Cobra pike, because of the snakeskin pattern of its juveniles, this interesting pike cichlid shows the bright red coloration only as an adult. Like all pike cichlids of the lugubris group this species gets very large, can be aggressive and needs very large aquariums to thrive>>>>


So, after all that preamble my question is this: are they roughly the same fish? If not, why does Oliver who seems to be as wise as they get on pikes apparently blurring the line?

G

 

[Scatocephalus]

So, PP, Mt. Pike, Scato, Tazz, SixSpeed and all you who have owned Tapajos Reds or Cobras, or anyone who feels they have the answer to the following question, please clarify. There are two types in my understanding: Tapajos 1s which as juveniles look yellowish with some red trim and grow (male and female) to be deep red pikes and are somewhat slender for Lugubrious. Cobras, are mottled as juveniles and the females get red as adults and the males not so much and the red seems to me lighter than the Tapajos 1s. Both have faint (though the cobras seem stronger) vertical bars on the saddles as adults.

However, the great Oliver Lucanus on his website has a pic of what is titled a Tapajos Red, that to me looks more like an adult Cobra in bloom. He also writes the following:
*
<<<<Crenicichla species &#8220;Tapajos&#8221;,Red Pike Cichlid
Friday, February 23, 2001
*
Also imported as the Cobra pike, because of the snakeskin pattern of its juveniles, this interesting pike cichlid shows the bright red coloration only as an adult. Like all pike cichlids of the lugubris group this species gets very large, can be aggressive and needs very large aquariums to thrive>>>>


So, after all that preamble my question is this: are they roughly the same fish? If not, why does Oliver who seems to be as wise as they get on pikes apparently blurring the line?

G

This is going to come accross as blahsphemous but I don't think he knows as much about pikes as we all think he does. He's the one that was arguing lenticulata all look the same and that there are no geographical variants. Remember, he was also telling everyone that tigrina grew to sizes in excess of 24" and were meaner than snot which was questionable info at the time and known to be false now.

The wording on his website does indeed make identification for those not in the know infinitely more difficult.

 

[sicxspeed]

I agree with Scat on this one, and being that he is waaaay more knowledgable in this regard then I am, ....

This alone is enough to me......<<<<Crenicichla species &#8220;Tapajos&#8221;,Red Pike Cichlid
Friday, February 23, 2001
*
Also imported as the Cobra pike, because of the snakeskin pattern of its juveniles, this interesting pike cichlid shows the bright red coloration only as an adult.


They are indeed different fish IMO though. I don't know if that means they are geographical variants of the same species or not, but there are tons lots of simularities.......Pike Identifacation is still not a perfect science and new information is constantly being brought to light, like the great, Lenticulata, Red Bad Strigata debate.

Dont know if that answers your question though.


By the way, Scat, a 24 inch Tigrina would be bad ass though

 

[Peanut_Power]

If they are the same fish, why are they sold under two different names? Tapajos red, and 'cobra' or ' Tapajos I' and 'Tapajos II'. Just cuz they look 'similar' as juv. doesn't mean they are the same species or variants. You can see their bodies are quite different......as well as the adult coloration. I really don't understand what the confusion is all about...lol...

 

[Hadrian]

Ah, i think PP has sorted it out, if cobras are also-know-as Tapajos 2s then Olivers caption makes pefect sense since it only says "Tapajos Pike".

 

[sicxspeed]

If they are the same fish, why are they sold under two different names? Tapajos red, and 'cobra' or ' Tapajos I' and 'Tapajos II'. Just cuz they look 'similar' as juv. doesn't mean they are the same species or variants. You can see their bodies are quite different......as well as the adult coloration. I really don't understand what the confusion is all about...lol...

In this situation, I think it would be "Just because they look almost Identical as Adults, not juvi's.....there is most definitely a huge difference when young, but as they get older, they do look very similar......as do many pikes that turn that same red, such as Xingu I, Fires, Cobra's and Tapajo Reds....Differences in markings and body shapes are evident enough when viewing two different species to definitely see they are not the same fish though.

 

[Peanut_Power]

In this situation, I think it would be "Just because they look almost Identical as Adults, not juvi's.....there is most definitely a huge difference when young, but as they get older, they do look very similar......as do many pikes that turn that same red, such as Xingu I, Fires, Cobra's and Tapajo Reds....Differences in markings and body shapes are evident enough when viewing two different species to definitely see they are not the same fish though.

What did you use the qoutation mark for and then not close it....i kept lookin for the end of the qoute...lol....

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

What did you use the qoutation mark for and then not close it....i kept lookin for the end of the qoute...lol....