Teach me to Vieja

[Buphy]

So I was talking fish with my fiancé and future tanks and she was asking questions on stocking and what not (and I used "and" way too many times there =P). Anyways all the vieja and paratheraps type fish have gotten her attention so I'd figure I'd poke around a bit.

I know there's a lot of different ones so I won't bother asking for a list, but size wise how big does the group get? Also, I won't bother with minimum tank size because I know that's a bad topic... But how many would fit in say, 1,000 gallons (no I don't have a tank that big though I wish I did... Come on lotto ticket!)? I ask such a big number because I've only really seen them in a community setting. Is that better for them or are they just not as good wet pets as amphilophus and such? One last question... Temperament wise, what do they compare to?

Anyways, thanks for the responses! Oh and pics are always welcome =P

 

[jonclark96]

Full grown adults can get very large, probably in the 14" plus range. Search the forum for pictures of Aquamojo's old zonatum. He was a beast.

As far as how many you can fit in a single tank, I've seen Rusty Wessel's fish house, where he keeps groups in 7 foot, 265 gallon tanks. I'd say most tanks have between 8 and 10 of a single species in each tank.

My experience is that they are a bit aggressive, but nothing like parachromis or amphilophus. I've kept fenestratus, synspilum, melanurus, and maculacauda.

 

[koltsixx]

Most of the species within Vieja have been reclassified and are no longer considered Viejas. So I'm going to assume your talking about the species that used to be classified as Vieja.

As a group they tend to range in size from 12 to 16 inches with most tending toward the larger end of that spectrum.

I rarely see them in communities with other Viejas unless they're contained within a large aquarium. Some get away with mixing them in smaller tanks but it's either luck or a lot of trial and error finding which individuals will tolerate other Viejas in tight quarters. At least that has been my experience. I've kept Synspila, Zonatus, Argentea, Hartwegi and Regani my personal favorite.

Temperament wise they are usually bold and interactive making them personable wet pets. While most aren't as aggressive as Amphilophus. They are fairly aggressive with each other and other cichlids they see as competition. To the point mixing the wrong individuals can result in a slow death. They how ever have a reputation for being more tolerant of none cichlid tankmates. Yet even that like most things shouldn't be considered a rule. One of the reason that those who mix them with other Viejas do is probably due to their stunning coloration. There are few displays as colorful or as impressive as a display of Viejas.

As for pics one of the best that exemplifies they're attractiveness and personality is the one of AquaMojo and his Zonatus. Hopefully he won't mind me using his picture here as an example of why these guys make great wet pets.

And a here's a personal pic of my Regani

 

[duanes]

Vieja (Paraneetroplus, Paratheraps, Chuco etc) are some of my favorites, and also some of the most frustrating.
I find vegetarian cichlids (and these omnivores tend to lean toward the vegetarian side) can be very territorial, and because of this tendency, guard turf in a much more invested and ferocious way than predators if space is limited.
I've had an alpha argentea wipe out every other cichlid in a 6 ft tank, including larger Parachromis when it hit maturity.
Because of this I only keep single species tanks if the tank is 6 ft or smaller.
So I will give you the list I've kept, in order of their aggressiveness in my tanks.
For me, argentea, maculacauda, regani, and zonatus are most intolerant of themselves and any other cichlids.


Somewhere in the middle have been fenestratus, and bifasciata.

And at low levels of aggression the Chucos (intermedia, and micropthalmus)

breidhori, and synspilla.

If you lump bocourti and pearsei within the Vieja cadre, they would be for me, low end aggression type, although because of size also in need of much space.

Within 2-3yrs my pearsei out grew a 150 gal tank
I do believe its all about space, if you were to go over the 250gal size tanks, aggression ceases to become so limiting.
Most of my tanks are in the 100 to 150 gal range, so really not large enough for more than a pair or trio of 1 species to a tank.

 

[duanes]

I have found many Vieja could stand there ground against similar size Amphilophus, and if invested enough in the space, shred them. With past experience, I do not now, or in the recent past, keep together, although I tried many years ago.

 

[xraycer]

Here are mine that's going on 2 years together in a 180. They've all grown together from since they were only a few inches. 2 pairs have even successfully spawned a few times in the tank.

 

[Manu8__too]

Not much else to add to the excellent feedback/information above. However, I will add that my former Synspilum was hands-down the fastest growing Cichlid that I've ever kept (20+ years in the hobby). He went from 5" to over 12" in 6 months time. They grow into incredibly thick and bulky fish. Not quite the personality and interaction that you'd get from something in the Amph genus, but wonderful pets none the less. My Avatar is a picture of my old male Synspilum a few weeks before I sold him.

 

[ragin_cajun]

I will add that my former Synspilum was hands-down the fastest growing Cichlid that I've ever kept (20+ years in the hobby).

I just learned something. Yep, Syn's do grow very fast. Faster than a Midas, or a Trimac. Only fish I've had that grew faster than a Syn is a Lyonsi.

 

[Buphy]

Thanks all for the wonderful information! Confirmed my tank size theory very well and now with authority (or more than I had before) I can tell my fiancé they have to wait. Still can't wait to try them some day, probably have taken over my other community tank idea for dream tank at this point. Top ones I've seen I liked (and my fiancé like) are: heterospila, symph, Argentinian, coat. And zotas... If I spelled any of those right... Any particular light on those ones?

 

[jaws7777]

Heterospilus are pretty laid back and grow really slow. From what i understamd they are on the smaller side (less than 10 inches) mine doesnt bother anyone infact usually gets picked on.

Also have zonatus and had argentea in the past wouldnt even try to mix them with other cichlids.

Post some pics later