Mahseer, Tor, and Neolissochilus at Fish Story

[thebiggerthebetter]

Wesley Wong graciously transferred his Tor khudree to me in Aug 2015. It was probably 20"-22". It's done well in one of my 4500 gal tanks. Pretty peaceful fish, at least I've not witnessed any aggression from it toward its very motley crew of tank mates. Neither have I seen any predatory behavior although its tank mates appear too big for it to even fathom an attack.

It's my biggest mahseer and a smart eating machine as all mahseers appear to be and an excruciatingly slow grower, again, as all mahseers appear to be. It looks like ~24" right now, both numbers being eyeball, in-tank estimates. It likes baitfish, cut and whole, too in addition of its staple pellets.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

I got three mahseers from Ivan Aw3s0m3 the summer of 2016. Two of them Ivan labeled (apparently bought) as Thai golden mahseer but I am not finding any info on them on the net. Golden mahseer is Tor putitora. Thai mahseer is Tor tambroides, according to this nice site anyway: http://www.fly-fishing-in-thailand.com/the-fish.html

There are 14 major Mahseer species under the Tor Genus and two under the Neolissochilus Genus:

Humpback Mahseer - Hypselobarbus mussullah (also called Tor mussullah)
Semah Mahseer - Tor douronensis
Thai Mahseer - Tor Tambroides
Deccan Mahseer - Tor khudree
Malabar mahseer - Tor khudree malabaricus
Golden Mahseer - Tor putitora
Soro Mahseer - Tor tambra
Chinese Mahseer or Mekong Red Mahseer - Tor sinensis
Dark Mahseer - Tor chelynoides
Blue Mahseer - Tor Neilli
Redfin Mahseer - Tor tor
Mosal Mahseer or Copper Mahseer - Tor mosal
Jungha Mahseer - Tor progenius
Zhobi mahseer - Tor zhobensis (also called Naziritor zhobensis)
Chocolate mahseer (also called Copper Mahseer) - Neolissochilus hexagonolepis
Stracheyi Mahseer - Neolissochilus stracheyi (also called Tor stracheyi)

(There are more species in the Tor and Neolissochilus Genus but most of them are very small species and not of any interest for the fly fisherman.)

Can you tell which one this is, please?

headbanger_jib fugupuff

This one is about 14", could have added about 1"-2" in my care. The other specimen is ~12" and has grown similarly too. Eat a ton, grow little. Typical. Love their pellets and baitfish.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

For comparison, here is the classification from Wikipedia as it currently stands. According to it, Tor tambroides is Malayan mahseer, not Thai mahseer, unless these are synonymous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahseer:

• Tor ater, Roberts, 1999
• Tor barakae, Arunkumar & Basudha, 2003, Barakae mahseer
• Tor douronensis, Valenciennes, 1842, khela mahseer or river carp
• Tor hemispinus, Chen & Chu, 1985
• Tor kulkarnii, Menon, 1992, Dwarf mahseer uncertain only one specimen found till now.
• Tor khudree, Sykes, 1839, Black mahseer, Deccan mahseer
• Tor laterivittatus, Zhou & Cui, 1996
• Tor macrolepis, Heckel, 1838, uncertain species
• Tor malabaricus, Jerdon, 1849, Malabar mahseer
• Tor mussullah, Sykes, 1839, Hump Back mahseer
• Tor polylepis, Zhou & Cui, 1996
• Tor progeneius, McClelland, 1839, Jungha mahseer
• Tor putitora, Hamilton, 1822, Himalayan mahseer or Golden mahseer
• Tor qiaojiensis, Wu, 1977
• Tor remadevii, Madhusoodana Kurup & Radhakrishnan, 2011
• Tor sinensis, Wu, 1977, Chinese mahseer
• Tor soro, Valenciennes, 1842
• Tor tambra, Valenciennes, 1842
• Tor tambroides, Bleeker, 1854, Malayan mahsheer
• Tor tor, Hamilton, 1822, Red-finned mahseer, Short-gilled mahseer or Deep-bodied mahseer
• Tor yingjiangensis, Chen & Yang, 2004
• Tor yunnanensis, (Wang, Zhuang & Gao, 1982)
• Neolissochilus baoshanensis, (Chen & Yang, 1999)
• Neolissochilus benasi, (Pellegrin & Chevey, 1936)
• Neolissochilus blythii, (Day, 1870)
• Neolissochilus compressus, (Day, 1870)
• Neolissochilus dukai, (Day, 1878)
• Neolissochilus hendersoni, (Herre, 1940)
• Neolissochilus heterostomus, (Chen & Yang, 1999)
• Neolissochilus hexagonolepsis, (McClelland, 1839), Chocolate mahseer
• Neolissochilus hexastichus, (McClelland, 1839), Brown mahseer
• Neolissochilus longipinnis, (Weber & de Beaufort, 1916)
• Neolissochilus namlenensis, (Nguyen & Doan, 1969)
• Neolissochilus nigrovittatus, (Boulenger, 1893)
• Neolissochilus paucisquamatus, (Smith, 1945)
• Neolissochilus soroides, (Duncker, 1904)
• Neolissochilus spinulosus, (McClelland, 1845)
• Neolissochilus stevensonii, (Day, 1870)
• Neolissochilus stracheyi, (Day, 1871)
• Neolissochilus subterraneus, Vidthayanon & Kottelat, 2003
• Neolissochilus sumatranus, (Weber & de Beaufort, 1916)
• Neolissochilus theinemanni, (Ahl, 1933)
• Neolissochilus tweediei, (Herre & Myers, 1937)
• Neolissochilus vittatus, (Smith, 1945)
• Naziritor zhobensis, Mirza, 1967, Balochi mahseer

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

I do realize the mahseer taxonomy is up in flux. Jibran headbanger_jib tells me Tor tor, as it stands now, is practically indistinguishable from Tor putitora.

So, I am in way, way over my head with the mahseers.

 

[Aw3s0m3]

That's no surprise how slow they're growing. All mahseers I've kept have been pretty slow. I'm in the same boat as you cuz I've never even heard of Thai goldens but that's what I was told they were so I went with the flow on it. Hopefully kendragon is still around.

 

[headbanger_jib]

Tor tambroides is there in India too.

The above fish looks like Neolissochilus stracheyi

 

[Deadliestviper7]

Does he like shrimp?

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

I don't know. I don't offer shrimp except very rarely when we get scraps from cooking. I throw them all in, the crowd goes on a frenzy and it's impossible to tell who is getting what and who is not. The scraps don't make it to the bottom usually.

It's too expensive to buy shrimp (ha... in sea fisherman town as Naples is... go figure). Neither do catch it, nor I think it is necessary.

Moreover, having two tigrinus catfish in there and bearing in mind T1KARMANN bad experience, I try my best to avoid unnecessary risks of feeding crustaceans to my tigs. Albeit it's not clear why some tigs are ok with crustaceans and some aren't, I am not about to experiment with mine to find out which kind mine are.

The above fish looks like Neolissochilus stracheyi

Interesting. I didn't expect it, bro. I have a video of the third mahseer I got from Ivan, which is supposedly the stracheyi. When I post it, we'll see. I think it is the stracheyi and it looks like one with the nice lateral dark band and much more blue color, which this fish and its smaller kin do not display.

Also, Balaji aka Shovelnose on PCF, our Indian expert on native Indian fish, wrote an email to me, asking for good photos to try and ID these "Thai golden mahseer". I value his opinion a lot too. So again, we'll have more to chew on soon, hopefully. He says, though, that of course, the state of taxonomy of the mahseers is depressing, using his word

 

[headbanger_jib]

Interesting. I didn't expect it, bro. I have a video of the third mahseer I got from Ivan, which is supposedly the stracheyi. When I post it, we'll see. I think it is the stracheyi and it looks like one with the nice lateral dark band and much more blue color, which this fish and its smaller kin do not display.

Also, Balaji aka Shovelnose on PCF, our Indian expert on native Indian fish, wrote an email to me, asking for good photos to try and ID these "Thai golden mahseer". I value his opinion a lot too. So again, we'll have more to chew on soon, hopefully. He says, though, that of course, the state of taxonomy of the mahseers is depressing, using his word

Balaji is a close friend, and he is our local catfish expert.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Wes sent me his one-eyed Tor malabaricus or Tor khudree malabaricus in Aug 2015 at about 15". It is not as aggressive a feeder as other mahseer I got, especially when it comes to fish, cut or whole. It grew some, perhaps currently to ~18", 1.5 years later. No one appears to bother it, nether does it bother its tank mates: