They say it can't be done but I've heard otherwise???

[Cloves4Oscar]

I've read on this site and another that CA's and SA's cannot crossbreed but I recently heard that contrary to the popular held belief it IS possible to crossbreed certain CA's and SA's and have even read about a fishkeeper that has had a Texas cichlid successfully spawn with an Oscar??? I do not know if the fry survived???
Anyways, I have a mix of both CA and SA in my big tank and my 10" female Jag and 12" male Kraussi have taken a liking to eachother and have been exibiting courting behavior with eachother, in fact, after spending a week looking for the perfect spawn rock and trying to get his approval the fem-Jag laid eggs last week (and the Kraussi promptly devoured them)...while she was laying he was extremely defensive and had the Cuban, Texas and the 2 JD's pushed back to a third of the aquarium and kept them all at bay throughout her laying. They have displayed all the signs of a happy couple and have tried to spawn now...I'm curious as to what it is that prevents them from crossbreeding? His spermies won't fertilize her eggs?? I think they would make a gorgeous hybrid if they can pull it off and I am hoping they can. I am really into hybrids and was hoping for a Jag-Cuban mix but looks like my fem-Jag's heart belongs to our Kraussi for now. We also have a little Jag in the grow-out which we are hoping turns out to be male and a Red Devil which we hope is female and will breed with our Texas. I'd love to get a Texas-JD cross as well. We'll see what happens. The ultimate goal is to create some neat hybrids and sell them as designer "Flowerhorns" lol! Kidding of course, I'm just kinda bored of always seeing the same old cichlids and have seen some beautiful hybrids and think it's neat to see who will breed with who. Makes for a more interesting tank.
So I would like to know what it is that makes it physically "impossible" to crossbreed CA's and SA's? Thanks, C4O

 

[Miguel]

Only suceesfull spawns i hear about between sa and ca are with Festae.

 

[Cloves4Oscar]

It was this site, about a week ago I'm sure??...where the guy was claiming that he had an Oscar and Texas breed and actually had wrigglers in his tank. He claimed he thought the same but there was only an Oscar and Texas in his tank. Does anyone reading this remember that thread? Again, can someone tell me exactly what the biological or physical barrier is to CA's and SA's spawning successfully? Parts? Spermies? Genetics? Thanks...C4O

 

[Azedenkae]

Hm... don't recall that thread. The only crosses I know of are CA x Festae, which is actually not at all surprisingly as Festaes are basically CAs that live in SA.

For two species to hybridize there are 2 major barriers that they need to cross, being the prezygotic and postzygotic barriers. For the prezygotic barriers there are five sorts of isolations that can prevent two species from hybridizing, the first two being habitat and temporal barriers. Habitat, is for example if they live in separate places and temporal is for example, if they mate during different times of the year. In the aquaria, neither of this really applies - cichlids of all sorts readily breed during any time in the year as we provide them with ample nourishment. Moving on is the behavioural barrier, basically that the two species could behave differently enough for them to not mate. I don't really find this to be true since cichlids do seem to have similar mating rituals, regardless of what species they are. It's not always true, but it's mostly true. Next up is the mechanical barrier, but I don't think this is a problem either. Severums can mate despite some of them being mouth brooders and others being substrate spawners, and they can hybridize. Nics lay non-sticky eggs, whilst most CAs lay sticky eggs, but Nic x CA hybrids still occur, because from what I can tell the 'main' part of the process, i.e. the female laying eggs and the males 'hovering' above them, CA or SA. Of course there are exceptions, but that's mostly the case. So now we move on to the final mini-barrier of the first major barrier - the gemetic barrier. It is possible that the sperm of a CA cannot enter a SA egg or vice versa. Now, I have yet to chance upon a study that focuses on this, so I don't really know if this is the case. I would imagine that it probably is the case, because if the sperm and eggs can fuse, then at least some fry should have eventually been produced - albeit very, very weak. Maybe they would be, but they're just so weak that no one has really manage to keep the eggs alive until the fries do hatch.

So yeah, it's probably the gametic barrier that prevents SAs and CAs from hybridizing.

 

[Miguel]

We recently had a jag with a true parrot with infertile eggs.