Imagine you're walking in your house and you feel a nudge in the back of your leg yet again. Its your fish and it wants to play some more. As you walk to your living room you see two Jack Dempseys chasing each other. No you don't live underwater, just the future.
I have been fascinated by the intellect of fish since discovering this site and my own ventures into the aquarium hobby/lifestyle. From initially being that 14 year old wanting to see some aggressive fish (thankfully I had no money way back then so I had to just do research) to now, my passion in the aquarium is to find out the intellect of fish.
What I am not doing is trying to find if a Green Terror is smarter then a dog or anything like that. I am interested in my fish 'learning'. I am a firm believer in the definition of limitation is personal and in life there are no asymptotes that 'can not be crossed' With that all said the purpose of this thread is two fold. Firstly I would like for everyone to list all conceivable toys for the aquarium and manners in which your aquarium bound friends could use these items (a mention of species would be cool). Secondly I would like people to list the tricks or 'learned' behaviour they have had their fish learn.
Currently in my tank my new world cichlids are rather new and can just fit a gravel pebble in their mouth. I have done some research and gained the following list of possible toys:
1) Ping pong balls, Bobbers, and bouncy balls.
I have heard that ping pong balls just need to be tossed in the aquarium and the fish spend days upon days with these. There has also been mention of taking a bouyant item and weighing it down so that its bouyant force is very near the weight so it is suspended in the middle of water. I've heard of these items being tied to certian fixtures and so on such that they bob. Finally the rubber bouncy balls I've heard provide the similar fun as the ping pong balls.
2) Magnets. I was surfing youtube (at least I hope I didn't just fall asleep and dream this up as I can not find the link) and saw the use of a magnet in the tank for a red devil. It appeared to me as a 'jet dry' dish-washing packet. There were two, one inside the tank and one outside. While the person on the outside moved the magnet outside the tank the Red Devil chased the magnet and bit on it. I think this is phenomenal and would provide some interesting interaction. I further imagine food-grade quality plastic would be used in a soft enough casing to not scratch the glass/acrylic yet strong enough to not be bitten through. If anyone knows anything about these things I'm desperate to find them... I've considered trying to make them. (And I tried every fish store in my city and every time the employees looked at me like I just asked them about a flux capacitor.)
3) So before this post I tried to find information on the website about toys and tricks. I found that someone put a hamster ball in an aquarium and then a fish in the the hamster ball. So theoretically what if you took the hamster ball out of the aquarium. I mean, not literally, but as a figurative idea? I have not really done any research on this but the idea of having a fish chase my dog around the house is too good to pass up. Initially I am thinking how could this work?
So idea i) Sphere
I imagine it would have to be made out of an extremely light weight plastic such that when the fish swam forward the added weight in the front would cause the sphere to rotate. Having it sealed to keep the water in would be obviously important. But having a manner in which air exchange could be possible would be difficult. It would be a learned behaviour but if hamsters can learn to run on a wheel I'm sure fish can learn to roll in ball. However this adds the problem of filtration/heating.
Not that I plan on taking my fish outside to build a snowman this upcoming winter but Theoretically if your in a colder environment then your aquarium the water would cool off. For me there's only a difference of approximately 5 - 10 degrees centigrade from my aquarium to the inside of the house. Do you believe this to be an issue if this idea were to be possible. The way I see this idea as being possible is there would be two concentric spheres. Within the first sphere would be the fish's location. Within the second sphere would be room for the extremely lightweight heater/filter/air-exchange device. This 'black box' would firstly require a power source - I would propose a Li-Ion battery because its light. It would not require a large heater as there probably wouldn't be tonnes of water needing heating. The filter/air exchange device would be difficult.
a) It would need to exchange both air and water interchangably. So when the intake (inside the 1st sphere) are above a water line they take air from inside the sphere and exchange it with air outside.
b) The filter would only really need mechanical filtration to clean up waste? I am not sure how important a biological filter would be to a fish in an environment for under 3 hours.
c) Maybe its because its 1am where I am and probably will have to do a much better explination of this topic in the morning. The idea of something being waterproof yet breathable I am having trouble understanding.
How I see this 'sphere' working. You would just dunk it in the aquarium (it would have to be waterproof on the outside such that the internal mechanics are not effected by the aquarium) and fill it to a marker and then have the fish swim in (hopefully they would be excited once they learn they can travel) and you set it on the ground and your fish follows you around the house. Stairs would pose a problem.
ii) Tank
Another way I could see providing mobility to a fish would be a robotic setup. (I am in electronics systems engineering so this wouldn't be too impossible) . I am thinking of something like a 10 gallon tank on tracks with motion sensitive detectors that when the fish moves to the front of the tank - judging by how quickly the move forward the Tank rolls forward a bit. This would allow for a larger battery/filter equipment and so on.
These are both ideas I just kinda thought up on the spot. I have no background in biology besides discovery channel and many books on fish read. As I have said above I'm pursuing a degree in electronic systems engineering which has me well versed in electronic equipment/sensors with voltages 120 and less. Secondly is a systems approach which deals with project design and management.
Part two - Tricks
The only thing I have been capable of doing in the past two months is having my fish associate objects with food. The three main associations the fish have formed are
1) I am the bearer of food. When I come into my room they swim around the tank and watch me wiggling back and forward. If I open up my laptop they pretty much just go back to swimming calmy.
2) Food comes in a plastic bag which I show them before I take the food from it. I am working through paslov's idea on ringing the bell and feeding the dogs can later allow you to ring the bell and have dogs salivate.
3) Finally I dip my fingers in the tank and make some splashing noises before I feed them food. This gets them front and center (similar to whistling) and ready to chow down.
Goals - Most of these are ideas from forums on the net
I'd like to teach my fish to be able to pull on a rope attached to a bell when hungry, Spit gravel at the glass when they want my attention, then the same tricks as my dog, sit pretty, stay, roll over (have yet for my dog to master that one) whisper [ i guess it would be more of a challenge for them to make a noise
] , teaching fish to balance food on top of its head then bite it would be a feat to see.
Any addition to anything would be so much appreciated. Just as long as its that will never work. One does not need to look far in history that anyone that has said something is impossible has always been wrong. (They'll never fly, they'll never make it to the moon, the Toronto Maple Leafs will never win the Stanely cup) Okay so maybe all but that last one is true [only because Montreal is going to win the stanely cup... next year] Just kidding. But yes please feel free to help in any manner possible.
I have been fascinated by the intellect of fish since discovering this site and my own ventures into the aquarium hobby/lifestyle. From initially being that 14 year old wanting to see some aggressive fish (thankfully I had no money way back then so I had to just do research) to now, my passion in the aquarium is to find out the intellect of fish.
What I am not doing is trying to find if a Green Terror is smarter then a dog or anything like that. I am interested in my fish 'learning'. I am a firm believer in the definition of limitation is personal and in life there are no asymptotes that 'can not be crossed' With that all said the purpose of this thread is two fold. Firstly I would like for everyone to list all conceivable toys for the aquarium and manners in which your aquarium bound friends could use these items (a mention of species would be cool). Secondly I would like people to list the tricks or 'learned' behaviour they have had their fish learn.
Currently in my tank my new world cichlids are rather new and can just fit a gravel pebble in their mouth. I have done some research and gained the following list of possible toys:
1) Ping pong balls, Bobbers, and bouncy balls.
I have heard that ping pong balls just need to be tossed in the aquarium and the fish spend days upon days with these. There has also been mention of taking a bouyant item and weighing it down so that its bouyant force is very near the weight so it is suspended in the middle of water. I've heard of these items being tied to certian fixtures and so on such that they bob. Finally the rubber bouncy balls I've heard provide the similar fun as the ping pong balls.
2) Magnets. I was surfing youtube (at least I hope I didn't just fall asleep and dream this up as I can not find the link) and saw the use of a magnet in the tank for a red devil. It appeared to me as a 'jet dry' dish-washing packet. There were two, one inside the tank and one outside. While the person on the outside moved the magnet outside the tank the Red Devil chased the magnet and bit on it. I think this is phenomenal and would provide some interesting interaction. I further imagine food-grade quality plastic would be used in a soft enough casing to not scratch the glass/acrylic yet strong enough to not be bitten through. If anyone knows anything about these things I'm desperate to find them... I've considered trying to make them. (And I tried every fish store in my city and every time the employees looked at me like I just asked them about a flux capacitor.)
3) So before this post I tried to find information on the website about toys and tricks. I found that someone put a hamster ball in an aquarium and then a fish in the the hamster ball. So theoretically what if you took the hamster ball out of the aquarium. I mean, not literally, but as a figurative idea? I have not really done any research on this but the idea of having a fish chase my dog around the house is too good to pass up. Initially I am thinking how could this work?
So idea i) Sphere
I imagine it would have to be made out of an extremely light weight plastic such that when the fish swam forward the added weight in the front would cause the sphere to rotate. Having it sealed to keep the water in would be obviously important. But having a manner in which air exchange could be possible would be difficult. It would be a learned behaviour but if hamsters can learn to run on a wheel I'm sure fish can learn to roll in ball. However this adds the problem of filtration/heating.
Not that I plan on taking my fish outside to build a snowman this upcoming winter but Theoretically if your in a colder environment then your aquarium the water would cool off. For me there's only a difference of approximately 5 - 10 degrees centigrade from my aquarium to the inside of the house. Do you believe this to be an issue if this idea were to be possible. The way I see this idea as being possible is there would be two concentric spheres. Within the first sphere would be the fish's location. Within the second sphere would be room for the extremely lightweight heater/filter/air-exchange device. This 'black box' would firstly require a power source - I would propose a Li-Ion battery because its light. It would not require a large heater as there probably wouldn't be tonnes of water needing heating. The filter/air exchange device would be difficult.
a) It would need to exchange both air and water interchangably. So when the intake (inside the 1st sphere) are above a water line they take air from inside the sphere and exchange it with air outside.
b) The filter would only really need mechanical filtration to clean up waste? I am not sure how important a biological filter would be to a fish in an environment for under 3 hours.
c) Maybe its because its 1am where I am and probably will have to do a much better explination of this topic in the morning. The idea of something being waterproof yet breathable I am having trouble understanding.
How I see this 'sphere' working. You would just dunk it in the aquarium (it would have to be waterproof on the outside such that the internal mechanics are not effected by the aquarium) and fill it to a marker and then have the fish swim in (hopefully they would be excited once they learn they can travel) and you set it on the ground and your fish follows you around the house. Stairs would pose a problem.
ii) Tank
Another way I could see providing mobility to a fish would be a robotic setup. (I am in electronics systems engineering so this wouldn't be too impossible) . I am thinking of something like a 10 gallon tank on tracks with motion sensitive detectors that when the fish moves to the front of the tank - judging by how quickly the move forward the Tank rolls forward a bit. This would allow for a larger battery/filter equipment and so on.
These are both ideas I just kinda thought up on the spot. I have no background in biology besides discovery channel and many books on fish read. As I have said above I'm pursuing a degree in electronic systems engineering which has me well versed in electronic equipment/sensors with voltages 120 and less. Secondly is a systems approach which deals with project design and management.
Part two - Tricks
The only thing I have been capable of doing in the past two months is having my fish associate objects with food. The three main associations the fish have formed are
1) I am the bearer of food. When I come into my room they swim around the tank and watch me wiggling back and forward. If I open up my laptop they pretty much just go back to swimming calmy.
2) Food comes in a plastic bag which I show them before I take the food from it. I am working through paslov's idea on ringing the bell and feeding the dogs can later allow you to ring the bell and have dogs salivate.
3) Finally I dip my fingers in the tank and make some splashing noises before I feed them food. This gets them front and center (similar to whistling) and ready to chow down.
Goals - Most of these are ideas from forums on the net
I'd like to teach my fish to be able to pull on a rope attached to a bell when hungry, Spit gravel at the glass when they want my attention, then the same tricks as my dog, sit pretty, stay, roll over (have yet for my dog to master that one) whisper [ i guess it would be more of a challenge for them to make a noise
] , teaching fish to balance food on top of its head then bite it would be a feat to see.Any addition to anything would be so much appreciated. Just as long as its that will never work. One does not need to look far in history that anyone that has said something is impossible has always been wrong. (They'll never fly, they'll never make it to the moon, the Toronto Maple Leafs will never win the Stanely cup) Okay so maybe all but that last one is true [only because Montreal is going to win the stanely cup... next year] Just kidding. But yes please feel free to help in any manner possible.
(Joke from an old thread).
.
