"True Green Terror" ??? - Aequidens Genus

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Did you read the article??

Notice the words "Genus" and "Aequidens".. he scientifically identifies all the different aequidens, many of which he collected himself from the wild..
 
Yes, I've read the article, several times. You made the gist of the topic about the "true" green terror, which he calls "Aequidens" spec. "Silbersaum". Meaning it hasn't been officially described (as far as I know Alf cannot actually scientifically identify species), and he's not even sure if it should be in Aequidens, hence the quotations.

How does that put the "true" green terror talk to rest?

It's a good link with good info on collection localles of fish, but it definitely doesn't "scientifically identifies all the different aequidens".

Here's a good interview with Alf

http://cichlidae.com/interview.php?id=271

And a discussion about the "true" GT's, using Alf's site as a refrence

http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/view...k=t&sd=a&sid=763b8292c02cf5dc35d49f4c75f598e6
 
Well.. he can't formally scientifically ID the fish.. but collecting them from their wild habitat is quite a bit of first hand information, that I would consider accountable.

I dislike the argument about the 'True Green Terror', and this guy specifically explains where each variant of 'Green terror' is located, and what they should be formally called..

I understand that the sp " ... " means it is not ID'ed yet, which is funny that no one has done a revision the Aequidens family after all this time.

Great cross-reference Links.. it still dosn't explain the 'green terror' that Rapps and I imported out of Peru, seems to be yet another species.
 
Miles;1335343; said:
Great cross-reference Links.. it still dosn't explain the 'green terror' that Rapps and I imported out of Peru, seems to be yet another species.

Is not the fish Alf calls "Aequidens" spec. "Silbersaum" the "true" GT? I'm a bit confused by your statement. I currently own some "true" F1 GT's and the parents came from Rapps, so I'm always interested in learning more about this subject.

** This fish comes from Peru, and here in Europe we call this fish Silbersaum. It was Luling that first collect this fish in 1972, and sent fishes to USA, the fishes came then to Europa and I got my first fish in 1975. They were sold as "Aequidens" rivulatus.

When the "Goldsaum" came on the market in the end of the 1970's it looks like everybody had forgotten this "Silbersaum" from Peru and called the new one from Ecuador, "Aequidens" rivulatus. I was not agree with this, because I still had the "Silbersaum" from Peru. But, I could not be, absolute certain that I was right.

I have been working hard with these fishes ever since, and this ends up with my first collecting trip to Ecuador in 1987. I collected the fishes earlier mention from Quininde, but, I did not know at that time that I had collected the real Aequidens rivulatus, because I was not able to bring back fish alive. Only the dead material was sent to Stockholm, to Dr. Sven O. Kullander.

I went back to Ecuador in 1989 and collected in rivers south of Guayaquil and even south of Machala. The nearest town was La Avanzada and I followed the road to Balsas and passed a river called Rio Arenillas. There I collect "Aequidens" spec. "Goldsaum" and "Cichlasoma" festae. The last week, I went up to the biotop near Quininde, and was able to bring back the "Aequidens" rivulatus, but still I did not know if I had the real one. The fishes grew up to be very nice fishes and then I start compare the fishes with the other ones, and I was bothering Dr. Kullander and asked him if he could look at my material from Ecuador. It took some years, but in a combination trip when he went to London, he also took the time to check Günthers material. And then he told me that I most certainly had the real "Aequidens" rivulatus. I went also back to Ecuador in 1991, 1993 and in March 2003.

So, then it was this "Silbersaum" from Peru, what was the distribution of this fish ? I went to Peru in 1994 to seek this information. I had with me Dr. Patrick de Rham and another friend. To make it short; We found out that the southern distribution of this fish was in Rio Pisco. When I asked Dr. Hernan Ortega at the Nat. Hist. Museum in Lima, he also said that they had not found the "Silbersaum" further south. Then I went north to see if I could establish the northern distribution of the "Silbersaum". We started in Rio Tumbes where we collect the "Goldsaum", we did not find any "Silbersaum. We went up in Rio Zarumilla and collected several places, still collecting only the "Goldsaum" also in a small stream/river called Rio Faical we still collect the "Goldsaum".

I also wanted to check the rivers south to see if I would found the "Goldsaum" and the "Silbersaum" together in one river. But, all the rivers were dry, and it was only desert. We did not found any rivers with water before we came to a small place about one hour drive north of Piura. The place was called Pueblo Mallares. There we collected our first "Silbersaum", but unfortunately also Tilapias. Tetras like Rhodsia, Brycon, Lebiasina, Bryconamericanus peruanes, Pseudocurimata and Guppy. Water temp. 22,5 C. pH 8,2, dH 31, kH 15 and 1850 micro siemens. We went the day after, up to a place called Tambo Grande, passing Sullana and was collecting in every river we crossed. And in all the places we collect, we collect "Aequidens" spec. "Silbersaum". I had also collect material for the Museum in Stockholm, and the material was from Rio Cañete and Rio Pisco in the south. Because Dr. Kullander told me, he did not have any material from the south, only north of Lima. There was also some small differences between the "Ae".spec."Silbersaum from the south and the northern type.
But, I don't think the last word has been spoken yet, about this issue, but I feel I'm pretty close. It remains to see. who grab this and describe the other fishes. They might be called something else than "Aequidens" in the end. But, in the meantime we can still call the fish "Aequidens" with quotation marks.
 
The only issue was Rapps calling the 'true GTs' A. rivulatus. Apparently A. rivulatus is a fish that was never imported much at all. That means the true A. rivulatus was neither the original GT in the hobby, or the current GTs ('false silver' and gold saums).

Because science is lagging on this issue, it really is best to call "Aequidens" sp. "Silbersaum" by the name of "true green terror", because that is a name that actually means something to aquarists (it is both accurate and descriptive).

See also this thread for my rough synopsis of the situation:

http://www.thewatersnake.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=525&pid=28607&st=0&#entry28607
 
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