Tumors on Brachyrhamdia sp. BOLIVIA HELP!!!

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo

Desert Bus

Peacock Bass
MFK Member
Sep 29, 2006
1,115
366
122
Indiana, USA
My ??? years old Brachyrhamdia sp. BOLIVIA is sprouting tumors. Is there anything I can do other than spending hundreds of dollars on a fish vet? I will try to get pics but i'm gonna have to tear up like 2/3rds of a well established planted tank to catch it. I really don't want to have to try and find a fish vet and pay hundreds of dollars to try and save a 3" fish. Keeping it happy while it slowly dies is more important to me right now. It's eating and swimming etc. but tumors.

I have never had a positive outcome when a fish gets cancer and this is both rare and my fav fish. :(
 
  • Like
Reactions: thebiggerthebetter
If it’s a tumor then not much to be done to treat it.
 
Not a lot you can do if they do turn out to be tumours (from folks viewing the photos), just keep doing what you are doing if the fish is years old and happy.
 
signal-2021-04-21-111315.jpeg

From what I can tell they're supposed to be this Chonky but you can't see the tumors in this photo.

If it didn't hide for like 99% of the time (as is proper for it) I would have caught this earlier. :(

Thanks! pretty much what I thought. Gonna keep giving it clean water and good food. Best I can do,

It was one of those "random fish" that LFS's occasionally get with their normal WC stuff. Been in the hobby 30+ years it's 100% cancer, I know my s#%t.
 
The bumpy badly distended ventral half indeed looks bad. If the fish feeds, it's hardly a digestive issue, but like everyone says more likely swelling and/or tumors. Bumpiness especially points to tumors. And I agree, it is not known to be treated. Lymphocystis is a possibility but IDK how this is treated or if even treatable. Koi get it sometimes.

Tumors have known and unknown causes. Among known and correctable, heavy metals are listed, even long term exposure to something as ubiquitous as iron. The bad actors are chromium, nickel, copper, arsenic, lead, manganese, cadmium, mercury.
 
I did some digging and it looks like I've owned this fish for ~4 years, and based on the growth rate I've seen with it it was probably 1-2 years old when purchased. Any animal that lives long enough will eventually develop some sort of cancer.

There is a maybe 1/8" diameter bumpy red lump growing where the other pectoral fin connects to the body. Looks kind of like a tiny raspberry. So it's got clearish lumps on the dorsal, bumpy red lump on a pectoral, the less clear lump on the ventral, and it's fatter than it should be. I would love for it to be Lymphocystis and while what's going on looks very similar to it the lumps don't look quite right to me to match that diagnosis. That was my first thought too. Treatment for Lymphocystis and tumors is exactly the same though, clean water and hope, so if i'm wrong and it is Lymphocystis i'm still doing the correct thing.

Nothing else in the tank is displaying any symptoms, it's still eating and swimming around like normal, the lumps don't seem to be growing very fast or much at all. I suspect that once it starts acting different to the point where I can catch it is roughly the point where I should euth it.

It has been exposed to a LOT of iron, I have an 8"x8" patch of Red Crypt that's about 16" tall and a bunch of Hygrophilia polysperma var. "Sunset" in the tank so I dose iron when I fertilize and have been for years. I dose Flourish Excel, Flourish, Flourish Trace, Flourish Iron, Flourish Potassium, and Blackwater Extract but generally only once every month or so except for the Excel and Blackwater which are about every week. It's also been exposed to aquarium salt and Melafix a couple of times. It's been exposed to a lot of random crap is what i'm saying.

There doesn't seem to be any symptoms of swim bladder issues so that can pretty much be ruled out as a cause for the fatness.

My phone camera is ancient, i'm not great at pictures, and I need to clean up the plants and glass but this is the 29g it lives in. You can see how and why it is impossible to catch. It magically disappears into the giant patch of Anubias nana or the Red Crypt or ???. It is very very fast and there are countless hiding spots where no net can go. 20210501_063429.jpg

Thanks everyone!

Honestly it could also be fat because I sold 400 Malaysian Trumpet snails a couple of months ago resulting in a LOT more food for it to eat. I know fish can get fat and I know it's been gorging itself recently. I have cut down on feeding but probably not enough to equal out removing 400 .5" to 1.5" MTS.
 
Does the iron plant feed state "benign for fish"?

I recall there was a scientific article on the link between iron and tumors in fish. If you inject soluble, dissolved iron, I'd suspect this could be far, far worse than just a rusty piece of metal in one's tank.
 
It's Seachem Flourish Iron so I would hope it is fish safe. I also used it in a tank where a Betta developed cancer. But I've had a lot of fish since I got into planted tanks and 2 out of hundreds? over the past 17+ years is a low enough percentage that I doubt it's the cause. I have seen a Convict with cancer in a friends tank who also used it, but once again that's one out of a lot over a long long time. (Please don't ask me what wizardry my friend employed to keep Convicts and live plants together successfully, I don't know. His tanks were insane autistic works of art.)

Google isn't bringing up anything bad about it other than "don't overdose it," and while I've never bought the kit to test for iron concentration in the water, i'm pretty sure 3ml a month in a tank with a lot of red and pink plants (Red Crypt, Hygrophila polysperma var. "Sunset") can and will take that in pretty quickly. The Hygro grows at an insane rate and based on its coloration i'm not adding enough iron. There's a reason it's on the Federal Noxious Weed list and you can't buy it legally anymore lol


Anyway, i'm just going to do more water changes and watch for any reduction in appetite or mobility etc. I don't usually name my fish but now i'm going to call this one "Lumpy." It had a good run for a fish whose keeping requirements I had to guess at based on what's known about the other 8 Brachyrhamdia. I have completely failed to manage to contact the guy who posted the pics of one to Planet Catfish and I am the only registered owner of one on there so I haven't been able to compare notes with anyone as to what works and what doesn't for this species.

If it's not cancer and is indeed Lymphocystis then I probably triggered it by selling a bunch of MTS recently, possibly causing a slight decrease in water quality despite me increasing water changes and decreasing food after. Might have caused a slight bacterial dieoff in the filter due to reduced bioload? Oh well. I'm usually pretty good at this stuff and the vast majority of my fish live long healthy lives so things like this are frustrating. What was the cause? What can be done? I've dealt with most fish diseases at this point but usually only once and not always successfully, but I've lost very very few fish to disease since I got back into the hobby about 17 years ago. I think the last time was about 3? years ago maybe.

I'll keep up with my sporadic attempts to catch it to try to get better pics but so far that just seems to be a method of transferring duckweed from the tank to walls and sinks and my clothes and somehow my cat's water dish one time.
 
  • Love
Reactions: thebiggerthebetter
The pic isn’t too clear for me but looks like bloat. See this with some cb bichirs. Do well but after eating it becomes noticeable. Could try some epsom salt 3 tbsp per 5 and see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thebiggerthebetter
Sad update, I found it dead when I turned on the light this morning. The vast horde of Malaysian Trumpet Snails had already stripped the outside of the body, so no good pics of those lumps like I wanted to get.

A quick necropsy showed a a few decent sized masses of tissue randomly attached to various organs. Those are definitely are not normally found inside any fish I've ever seen the inside of or any diagrams showing the internal workings of a fish I have seen. Most fish just have fish organs inside of them.

It was indeed cancer and from the amount of it inside the fish i'm guessing it was growing in there for a long long time before it started to show up as issues on the outside of the fish.

I really hate doing fish necropsies but not knowing would have been worse. And now I know that I don't have to worry about Lymphocystis spreading in my tank.

Thank you all for your advice and suggestions these past ten days. I was really hoping to be wrong. :(
 
MonsterFishKeepers.com