Unhappy eartheaters

[DaveB]

Something is going on in my tank. Noone is dying, only one fish is sick, but it has been a while since my orangeheads attempted a spawn and none of them are showing any orange at all. They used to be super bright.

Timeline:

last attempted spawn: 6 months ago
original adult male orangehead goes belly up, eventually dies: 4 months ago
Satanoperca Red Lip gets holes in its head, cured quickly in isolation with metro: 2 months ago
2nd adult male orangehead loses equilibrium, gets cured, loses it again in a move, dies during 2nd round of treatment: 3 weeks ago
Satanoperca Red Lip shows HiTH again, which goes away with treatment, but is very very unhappy and seems to be giving up: present

I've mentioned the last two fish in here before. Both seemed to be cured before sliding back. The Red Lip is currently off meds and just getting mega water changes daily instead because I don't want to just keep bombing him with drugs.

The fish never graduated to their 300 so they're still in a 135. The tank has 2 FX5s and a 2028 on it and I only feed once every 2-3 days. Lately I have been feeding the Jungle labs parasite food (it has metro) along with the arowana food.

The tank is overstocked, but the nitrates are never above 5 or 10 due to the low feeding regimen. It was always this way, though, and is not a new development. Still, I plan to thin the herd now that they're not getting the bigger tank... but I don't want to risk selling infected fish to anyone.

Right now, none of the orangeheads or Satanoperca seem at all unhappy, behavior-wise. The Uaru and the Arowana were never affected. The leucosticta are quite colorful, but the orangeheads are not. The water is crystal clear, well aerated, same 7.5 pH as ever (higher than SAs prefer, but again, they bred in it before), same hardness, no nitrite or ammonia, nothing. But the geos are not colored up. At all.

See the two photos of the same fish for contrast. The first was in their growout last February. The others are today.

Anyone ever experience something like this? I feel like it's just some sort of minor bacterial issue that has been lingering for a while. I have at times dosed the entire tank with metronidazole, but that gets expensive. Still, if doing that or using the Maracyn ingredients in bulk (Erythromycin is one, not sure what the other is) I'll find a way to buy it and do that.

 

[MadRussian79]

Check your tap and tank for Phospahate and KH. You are under feeding (legitimately due to over stocking) which can restrict spawning in many species of fish so that's probably why they aren't breeding.

 

[DaveB]

Hm. I have a kH kit around here somewhere, I'll check again. It has always been very high in this area, but I don't remember how high. (Good for my Africans, bad for the SAs. I have an RO kit that I haven't set up yet...

What effect might might phosphate have?

 

[MadRussian79]

Phosphate can affect bone development and how hardness behaves by binding to Calcium among other things. Mine were off the scale when I had had high phosphate my fish were prone to just up and die, no warning just drop dead.

 

[alexmuw]

Whats your water change schedule?

High phosphates are usually followed with high algae growth (your tanks look very clean).

I agree with the above poster. Stress (lack of food, water changes?) could be preventing your earth-eaters from spawning. [HOWEVER, I don't know anything about earth-eaters].

You claimed they spawned in the past. Have your changed anything? Maintenance? Added new fish that could stress them?

 

[DaveB]

KH is 7. GH is 11. Not sure on P.

I get a LOT of brown algae in the fry tank. Not so much in this one because it only gets like 60w light over it for 6 hours a day. This tank was scrubbed 100% clean 3 weeks ago when I moved (just a few blocks - same water) and nothing has really grown back yet. There's a bit on the back glass but nothing major there or in the African tank (which moved over a week earlier). The fry tank is getting 2w/g so that'd explain the brown growth, obviously.

They spawned in this same hard water in the past, though the wigglers never survived. Heck, a year ago even the juveniles got it on. The only thing that has changed is that now there are 2 fewer orangeheads and the Uaru babies are becoming Uaru adults (need to thin them out especially).

I suppose it's possible that Chicago upped the P without me realizing it a while back. The hardness is the same. The Africans love it and the yellow labs have still been spawning non stop. Though I should note that the Demasoni had not spawned in a long time before I sold them a few months ago. I attributed that to a lack of females though.

My WC schedule is irregular. They get 50-60% at a time, but that can be anywhere from 2 days apart to 2 weeks. I intend to automate everything once I get better situated at this new place, including the RO. I bought it for a possible Discus tank but am hopeful that I can somehow split it 2-3 ways. Anyway, I just did 50%, which was 6 days since the last one, which was 5 days after the previous one, which was 9 days after the previous, which was a full tank full of new water during the move.

What's odd is that in past tanks, it was ALWAYS the Arowana that was the indicator of water issues. It'd breathe heavy with even a trace of anything being imperfect. If anything, he's happier lately though. Less skittish.

Anyway, I'm going to order a phosphate test kit. Or is that something I can run out and grab at Petco? Any good/bad ones?

 

[DaveB]

The red lip seems to be giving up. Just plopping on the bottom of the tank and breathing hard, listing slightly and very pale. It's really frustrating. I've tried everything, and the external wounds healed nicely, but obviously there's a lot more wrong with this fish. It really sucks, it's the only red lip I've seen around here, is a solid 7 inches, and has been a great fish for years.

 

[DaveB]

After a brief recovery where the red lip seemed to clearly want to live, she died this morning. And I'm still concerned about the rest of the tank, one leucosticta in particular.

Justin and I had a conversation last night in which I basically became convinced that they're way underfed. My portions didn't get any larger as the Uaru grew and they end up getting all the food. In addition, since the move they haven't gotten anywhere near the amount of good veggies. I wouldn't say I've neglected them, but I've definitely slacked off. So, while I'm prepared to take drastic anti-bacterial measures as a next step, right now it appears that nothing is too urgent and I can try a much heavier food and water change regimen with better food. We'll see if that helps.

Still, I do wonder if there is something eating them from the inside a bit. I can't capture it on camera very well but there's one Leucosticta who is starting to get that misshapen, almost bump on the head look to him. He eats, but is very timid about it, as if he wants to make sure the other fish all get their fill first.

In the other pic you can see clearly that none of the orangeheads have any color. The remaining adult female has some, but the rest are all pale. I can't even pick out my dominant subadult anymore. He used to have some really nice trailers too.

 

[DaveB]

OK, I am doing a water change (just in case of ammonia spiking after the big meal, due to the re-populating filter) and one of the small orangeheads has a visible dark red (blood color) blotch below the surface on its face, just above the mouth. Since starting it 15 minutes ago the fish has noticeably weakened and is starting to get picked on. Either this wasn't there 2 hours ago or it was hiding.

Either way, it's bad. This fish probably only has a few hours to live. Food is no longer my working theory.