Vieja Hartwegi Male or Female?

[cichlidsickness]

First time keeper of vieja hartwegi here. There are two fish here that need a male/female ID. I think i have 2 males, with one being more dominant and therefore more colorful than the other. Just wanted a confirmation, what do you think?

First two pics are the 1st fish. Last two pics ard the 2nd fish.

 

[decoy50]

You need to vent them to be certain of their sex. First fish def has the steep forehead of a male. 2nd fish could be a female or it could be a sub dominant male.

 

[duanes]

If you could post a photo of them equally head to head it may help, because the differences may become apparent. But with almost all Vieja, they must be fully mature to see outward physical differences (at least two years old), these appear to be very young to me. As stated above, males would have a much steeper profile.

When they are head to head, as in the photo of the Chuco above, difference are often dramatic, and the profiles of these Chuco are very similar (although a bit more subtle) in Vieja .
below two different location variants of female Chuco's square off, with the male waiting above.

below, male left females right

I realize these are not hartwegi, but the differences are similar once either species is mature.

 

[cichlidsickness]

Thanks for the info. They are 5 inches. Do you think they are large enough to vent for a positive ID?

 

[duanes]

Venting might be the only possible way at that young age, if you are well versed in venting that is.
I'm not, for me certain species vents are obvious, some not.
Here is another Vieja, that for me outward body shape, and color pattern distinctions were easy.
Vieja breidhori.

male above (at 5" or so), females below only about 4" or less

in the pair shot, above female in foreground.