What are some factors that contribute to cichlid parenthood

[Cichlidguy1234]

As we all know most cichlids are incredible parents. Some can even defend their own against other monster cichlids, but some times, the pair just decides to eat their fry or eggs and re-spawn.
I know it also depends on the species but what other factors contribute to the parental care all the way to the juveniles phase of the fry?

For example I have 4 rainbow cichilds
( H. multispinosa) they are in a 50 gallon tank. They are accompanied by a school of zebra danios to serve as ditter fish. A pair has already formed but spawned about 3 times, although, this is their first time in 2 months or so to breed again. In past times, the eggs have hatched to wigglers and after about two weeks they have gone missing. This is when the second spawn happened.
How come some cichilds might protect their fry to the end? And what can we do to encourage this behaviour?

It's probably either the danios or the other two cichilds that are dwindling the pack but I would think they can protect maybe 3-5 fry from the rest of the stocking. I'm debating weather I should take the eggs out or leave them in so the parents get more experience, since it's one of their first spawns.

 

[MrsE88]

From my experience it’s their inexperience that leads them to eat their fry/eggs.
My male gt was a horrible father and mate. He would sneak eating eggs while spawning and after they hatched he’d do all he could to eat the fry. It took multiple times before he stopped.
And when he stopped it was just out of the blue. Nothing was done differently that time around.
I’d just give them time to get it right on their own. Or pull the fry if you really want to raise some up. I did that once too. They did just fine.

 

[duanes]

I've had a similar experience with multispinossa.
I kept 6 pairs in a 500 gal kiddy pool, where each pair spawned regularly, for a time, eggs and wrigglers would sometimes be protected, but once free swimming, no spawns were successful.


I believe if the parents realized protecting the fry was a useless endeavor, rather than letting other fish benefit, they would eat the young, wrigglers or eggs themselves, so the effort wouldn't be a total waste. And I don't mean realize in an anthropomorphic sense, but more instinctually
When I separated pairs and allowed them to spawn in secure environments, fry lasted.
And I have found this with many cichlids that spawned in y tanks. If the effort to protect was too great, the parents used the protein for themselves. When cichlids spawned in community settings, I've almost always found it is better to remove either the object with the eggs, or siphon out wrigglers before predation overwhelms the parents.

above I have removed a Ptychromis spawn to a breeder box

The moment after the eggs were removed, other cichlid swept in to catch any leftovers
But also, if the tank is too small, the parents may turn on each other, due to the increased hormones they produce to protect fry, without an outlet, one of the pair ends up in jeopardy.
And below Chuco intermedia placed wrigglers in a PVC cap, which was easily removed to the softy of a rearing tank.
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[Cichlidguy1234]

From my experience it’s their inexperience that leads them to eat their fry/eggs.
My male gt was a horrible father and mate. He would sneak eating eggs while spawning and after they hatched he’d do all he could to eat the fry. It took multiple times before he stopped.
And when he stopped it was just out of the blue. Nothing was done differently that time around.
I’d just give them time to get it right on their own. Or pull the fry if you really want to raise some up. I did that once too. They did just fine.

Yeah I'm not in a total rush to get fry, so I'll let them gave some experience and see how they do.

I've had a similar experience with multispinossa.
I kept 6 pairs in a 500 gal kiddy pool, where each pair spawned regularly, for a time, eggs and wrigglers would sometimes be protected, but once free swimming, no spawns were successful.


I believe if the parents realized protecting the fry was a useless endeavor, rather than letting other fish benefit, they would eat the young, wrigglers or eggs themselves, so the effort wouldn't be a total waste. And I don't mean realize in an anthropomorphic sense, but more instinctually
When I separated pairs and allowed them to spawn in secure environments, fry lasted.
And I have found this with many cichlids that spawned in y tanks. If the effort to protect was too great, the parents used the protein for themselves. When cichlids spawned in community settings, I've almost always found it is better to remove either the object with the eggs, or siphon out wrigglers before predation overwhelms the parents.

above I have removed a Ptychromis spawn to a breeder box

The moment after the eggs were removed, other cichlid swept in to catch any leftovers
But also, if the tank is too small, the parents may turn on each other, due to the increased hormones they produce to protect fry, without an outlet, one of the pair ends up in jeopardy.
And below Chuco intermedia placed wrigglers in a PVC cap, which was easily removed to the softy of a rearing tank.
[/URL

Interesting. Yeah my set up is more like yours just in a tub instead of a kiddie pool. I've heard this in gemran blue rams, if there is no need to protect their young they will usually eat them. This is partly the reason why I placed the zebra danios in there, to give them started in the protective mode. As of right now they haven't eaten their eggs so let's hope this is a success.