What are your thoughts on fish like Pacu being sold

Coryloach

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This makes a lot of sense. Just for my understanding: so you think the fish rights movement will never get traction?

Not addressed to me, but the fish rights movement is something I believe is going to get bigger and bigger for all different reasons. 70% of the Earth is water. If one doesn't care about the well being of fish, be it on a small or a large scale, one is either not going to be able to eat anymore fish or is going to become fish food when one is gone forever.

I've seen rivers, seas become void of fish in a country I lived in. It is now happening on a much larger scale and it is scary. And you're worried about invasive species?
 

RD.

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This makes a lot of sense. Just for my understanding: so you think the fish rights movement will never get traction?
Traction, as in having any type of real impact on the pet fish trade? No, I don't, at least not in my lifetime.

When I was a kid one of our Great Lakes (Lake Erie) was referred to as a "dead lake" by many. (circa 1970) Today that same Great Lake has a commercial fishing economic impact of approx. 250 million, which I think is just the numbers from the Canadian side. But today, along with pollution, invasive species such as zebra and quagga mussels, Asian carp, and others are once again threatening this and other lakes.

Without government intervention via the EPA, all that would probably be left is one great big swamp of algae and dead fish.

"It's an especially precarious time for Lake Erie's future.
That's according to Jeffrey Reutter, an aquatic biologist and limnologist from Ohio State University who has studied the lake since 1971.
It's his belief that if we lose the EPA, we lose Lake Erie."


Everyone should be concerned about both pollution, and invasive species, in all of our natural waterways.
 

Coryloach

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When I was a kid one of our Great Lakes (Lake Erie) was referred to as a "dead lake" by many. (circa 1970) Today that same Great Lake has a commercial fishing economic impact of approx. 250 million, which I think is just the numbers from the Canadian side.
One more thing to note from my point of view. Lakes, rivers, seas, ocean waters..... in the unlucky underdeveloped part of the world remain polluted and fish populations shrink and disappear. Invasive species is the least of the concerns over there...There will never be any improvement if people can't see further than their backyard.

And even in developed countries it's a struggle to reverse pollution damage. The below link talks about river Thames. It pretty much can take hundreds of years and a lot of effort and dedication to restore native fish populations...from pollution...


I will not start on the ways fish are farmed....Some scientific studies I read on fish farming sound like they've been written by my grand child after they kept their first aquarium for 3 weeks.
 

Coryloach

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Our privacy and freedom gets stolen under our own noses in a way more subtle way than many tend to realize.
 

RD.

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That's all good and well, Cory, but the topic at hand is to do with fish, and whether the government should get more involved, or not. Some say yes, some say no, but this isn't about fish rights movements, or improving the planet. Not by a long shot. In North America invasive species dictate what fish will be allowed on a federal level, as well as a state by state or province by province basis. Invasive species, or even the slightest potential of becoming one, is what is behind the banning and confiscating of various hobbyist kept species of fish.
 

Coryloach

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Invasive species, or even the slightest potential of becoming one, is what is behind the banning and confiscating of various hobbyist kept species of fish.
Sure that'l be over when there's no fish left to ban ...They're all dying slow plastic death anyway....:cry: Rant over :ROFL:My point is, the focus on fish should widen, by both governments and ordinary people. One leads the other, question is who leads and where it all leads to.
 

RD.

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That's laughable. While the govt and their various programs are not anywhere near perfect, please take a look at the species in the following link and tell me which ones were introduced by the govt, into the Great Lakes.


What about zebra mussels, and quagga mussels, did the govt introduce those as well?
Maybe the govt introduced Hydrilla, too? Or not.


Florida is reported to spend upwards of 30 million each year in an attempt to control it. There's your future tax dollars hard at work, Frank. Another SNAFU apparently created by someone in the aquarium trade back in the 50's. Nice work, moron. It's everywhere now, including where I grew up along the shore of the Detroit River, and Lake St Clair.

People talk about education being a good thing, yet they walk around with their heads up their ass, looking to always point blame at others. Blaming big brother is nothing more than a convenient cop out. I can tell you that without government intervention (going back 50+ yrs in some cases) our native waters would be a disaster.


Canada/USA, no difference really, many of our waterways are shared.

As of today, several hundred non native aquatic species have found their way into the Great Lakes.


AIS = aquatic invasive species.

Conclusions

"The five AIS considered have a range of possible effects on recreational fishing participation and value, according to study projections (Table 35). The worst case scenarios for Asian carp and quagga mussel could involve losses of $130,000,000-$140,000,000 in consumer surplus per year and 375,000-400,000 fishing trips annually. Improvements to recreational fishing were also considered possible outcomes for Hydrilla and Asian carp, with projected gains of almost $30,000,000 in value and 86,000 fishing trips annually. Scenarios projecting improvements were less common than those involving losses, however.

The pattern of states affected would vary depending on the particular scenario, but generally those in the central Great Lakes region were expected to bear the greatest impacts (Table 36). Illinois and Michigan had the potential to be most negatively. Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, and New York also bore substantial negative effects under some scenarios while Pennsylvania and Minnesota tended to be less affected. In those scenarios involving improvements to recreational fishing, Michigan and Ohio would be most likely to experience the greatest benefits. Scenarios that generated increases in fishing and value generally involved increases in warm water species, which are more heavily targeted in these two states."

And that's just from a sport fishery perspective, on the Great Lakes.

For anyone that actually gives a sheet about any of this, buy a clue and educate yourself, and your kids, and your grand kids. Standing on your front lawn waving the flag isn't going to get it done.
 
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RD.

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LBDave

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That's laughable. While the govt and their various programs are not anywhere near perfect, please take a look at the species in the following link and tell me which ones were introduced by the govt, into the Great Lakes.


What about zebra mussels, and quagga mussels, did the govt introduce those as well?
Maybe the govt introduced Hydrilla, too? Or not.


Florida is reported to spend upwards of 30 million each year in an attempt to control it. There's your future tax dollars hard at work, Frank. Another SNAFU apparently created by someone in the aquarium trade back in the 50's. Nice work, moron. It's everywhere now, including where I grew up along the shore of the Detroit River, and Lake St Clair.

People talk about education being a good thing, yet they walk around with their heads up their ass, looking to always point blame at others. Blaming big brother is nothing more than a convenient cop out. I can tell you that without government intervention (going back 50+ yrs in some cases) our native waters would be a disaster.


Canada/USA, no difference really, many of our waterways are shared.

As of today, several hundred non native aquatic species have found their way into the Great Lakes.


AIS = aquatic invasive species.

Conclusions

"The five AIS considered have a range of possible effects on recreational fishing participation and value, according to study projections (Table 35). The worst case scenarios for Asian carp and quagga mussel could involve losses of $130,000,000-$140,000,000 in consumer surplus per year and 375,000-400,000 fishing trips annually. Improvements to recreational fishing were also considered possible outcomes for Hydrilla and Asian carp, with projected gains of almost $30,000,000 in value and 86,000 fishing trips annually. Scenarios projecting improvements were less common than those involving losses, however.

The pattern of states affected would vary depending on the particular scenario, but generally those in the central Great Lakes region were expected to bear the greatest impacts (Table 36). Illinois and Michigan had the potential to be most negatively. Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, and New York also bore substantial negative effects under some scenarios while Pennsylvania and Minnesota tended to be less affected. In those scenarios involving improvements to recreational fishing, Michigan and Ohio would be most likely to experience the greatest benefits. Scenarios that generated increases in fishing and value generally involved increases in warm water species, which are more heavily targeted in these two states."

And that's just from a sport fishery perspective, on the Great Lakes.

For anyone that actually gives a sheet about any of this, buy a clue and educate yourself, and your kids, and your grand kids. Standing on your front lawn waving the flag isn't going to get it done.
I agree that the EPA is necessary and some oversight and intervention is necessary. If we did nothing governmentally for the environment we would be in worse shape. But as usual when the government is involved, everything is not moonlight and roses.
 
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