Why don't miniature versions exist more often in fish?

[Omrit]

I am not advocating for more freak fish, but I am surprised they do not exist.


So for those who are not aware nearly every farm animal comes in a mini version. Nearly every chicken breed has a bantam which can be as small as a 1/5th the size of the regular, mini horses are less than half the size of regulars, dogs have been twisted into every shape and size, along with pretty much every other creature that can be found on a farm.


Why is this not done with fish more? Aside from goldfish(which really don't have mini versions either honestly) there doesn't seem to be much, you would expect mini-oscars along with a bunch of other popular monster fish to have minis by now.


I do know a lot of fish come in short bodied which is a compressed spine, but pretty much nothing comes in a genuine miniature.


So how come? Most fish have hundreds of babies per spawn often several times a year. With such huge numbers you would expect selective breeding to be a rapid process compared to mammals or even chickens. Is there something about fish genetics that prevents this?

 

[Deadeye]

My guess is that these smaller ones are the fish that were unable to compete as well, and as juvies were killed off by the other fry.
I think it’s also just not profitable to breed for smaller fish. The main consumers would either have a tank big enough for a wild type, or wouldn’t know/care about the difference.
That said, this does slightly occur. Most captive fish grow smaller than their wild counterparts.

 

[neutrino]

Why bother imo? There are plenty enough of colorful, smaller species of fish, including tetras, barbs, rainbowfish, small or dwarf cichlids, and others. I get that someone might like a mini Oscar they can fit in a 20 gal tank, but even so it would be a small number, not economically viable, and among those few are even fewer true, long term, or serious aquarists. Most who keep larger fish are more anxious to grow them to impressive sizes, not how to keep them from growing. I also suspect that whatever it is, including mini versions of popular large fish, someone has tried-- and it either hasn't worked or hasn't caught on.

Achieving a slightly smaller breeding strain of Oscar might be one thing. Creating 4 inch mini-Oscars? If it's even possible, I suspect it would take a lot more than some guy with a fish room and a crazy idea.

 

[tlindsey]

Why bother imo? There are plenty enough of colorful, smaller species of fish, including tetras, barbs, rainbowfish, small or dwarf cichlids, and others. I get that someone might like a mini Oscar they can fit in a 20 gal tank, but even so it would be a small number, not economically viable, and among those few are even fewer true, long term, or serious aquarists. Most who keep larger fish are more anxious to grow them to impressive sizes, not how to keep them from growing. I also suspect that whatever it is, including mini versions of popular large fish, someone has tried-- and it either hasn't worked or hasn't caught on.

Achieving a slightly smaller breeding strain of Oscar might be one thing. Creating 4 inch mini-Oscars? If it's even possible, I suspect it would take a lot more than some guy with a fish room and a crazy idea.

Agree

 

[esoxlucius]

You just have to look at the humble goldfish to see what happens once us humans start meddling.

I say no more, leave the fish as they are.

If you can't provide an adequate sized tank for a fish you want, the answer is NOT to get a specially bred mini version of that fish, but to choose something else instead. Simple as.

I mean how far would it go, maybe a 3" dwarf arowana in a 10g!!!

 

[GolemGolem]

I'm not so sure Eso. Meddling is what humans do for better and worse, and normally without much research.
I'm thinking of a world where the 3" dwarf aro IS the default option one would see out shopping on an average Thursday.
Most folks still consider a 55g as the biggest thing they've seen this side of a zoo. The 10 gallon IS the upgrade for a lot of folks from the sub gallon plastic thing with the Disney Princess branding.
You ever watch these people shop for fish as a family? The kid looks for what looks cool, the parents say yes or no based on price alone. Might be a saving grace sometimes as I watched three kids very happy each with their own personal ghost shrimp yesterday.
But RTCs and pacu are also very inexpensive.
If the default was fish that could live in a 10g, and we could special order our weird big fish - the hobby would be just fine and there would be less dead fish involved.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

If the default was fish that could live in a 10g, and we could special order our weird big fish - the hobby would be just fine and there would be less dead fish involved.

Don't know what to say about anything else in this thread, but this should be the mentality of every retailer!

 

[FINWIN]

I am not advocating for more freak fish, but I am surprised they do not exist.


So for those who are not aware nearly every farm animal comes in a mini version. Nearly every chicken breed has a bantam which can be as small as a 1/5th the size of the regular, mini horses are less than half the size of regulars, dogs have been twisted into every shape and size, along with pretty much every other creature that can be found on a farm.


Why is this not done with fish more? Aside from goldfish(which really don't have mini versions either honestly) there doesn't seem to be much, you would expect mini-oscars along with a bunch of other popular monster fish to have minis by now.


I do know a lot of fish come in short bodied which is a compressed spine, but pretty much nothing comes in a genuine miniature.


So how come? Most fish have hundreds of babies per spawn often several times a year. With such huge numbers you would expect selective breeding to be a rapid process compared to mammals or even chickens. Is there something about fish genetics that prevents this?

For one thing, it's possible you'd be breeding smaller fish with genetic weaknesses/recessive genes that would get worse over time. I'm starting to see "short body" Oscars that look weird and disturbing to me. The porportions are terrible. Every new generation is a product of their entire lineage, not just immediate ancestry.

 

[FINWIN]

Why bother imo? There are plenty enough of colorful, smaller species of fish, including tetras, barbs, rainbowfish, small or dwarf cichlids, and others. I get that someone might like a mini Oscar they can fit in a 20 gal tank, but even so it would be a small number, not economically viable, and among those few are even fewer true, long term, or serious aquarists. Most who keep larger fish are more anxious to grow them to impressive sizes, not how to keep them from growing. I also suspect that whatever it is, including mini versions of popular large fish, someone has tried-- and it either hasn't worked or hasn't caught on.

Achieving a slightly smaller breeding strain of Oscar might be one thing. Creating 4 inch mini-Oscars? If it's even possible, I suspect it would take a lot more than some guy with a fish room and a crazy idea.

Sometimes dna trumps human idiocy.

 

[jjohnwm]

I've always assumed...without giving it much thought, to be honest...that the smaller sizes we often see listed for various species when in captivity versus in the wild were simply due to substandard maintenance practices. Too little room, poor diet, poor water quality, etc...

I'm dead set against designer fish or any other critters; so even if there existed something like a RTC or Alligator Gar that tops out around 1 - 1.5 feet, I still would not be interested. But I can't deny the appeal of such a fish to some keepers.

Still, there needs to be a market for anything to become popularly available, and I have to wonder if one exists for stuff like this. Over and over I read posts about an excited owner who has just brought home a RTC, TSN, Goonch, gar, etc. and they all too often close with "I can't wait for this guy to grow into a monster!" Most of the time I find myself thinking "Why? You don't even have enough room to keep it properly now; why do you want it to be huge?"

And, please...spare me the common rationale of "Well, my 55gallon will do for a year or two (nope, it probably won't...) but I have big plans for a 700gallon system in the basement rec room...just need to get my mom's permission first, and she didn't actually say no..."