Will SUNFISH EAT SHINERS? Will FFF KILL SHINERS?

[DeckedOutLoft]

four questions:

I'd like to start a room temp 12 gallon tank (no heater & no chiller, so it may be 65 degrees on Winter nights & close to 80 degrees on Summer days)

I want 1 Northern Longear Sunfish as my specimen fish. (the Northern variety are small guys, only getting 2-4")

I'll add 1 Madagascar Lace Plant & 1 Moss Ball to help with water quality.

A) If I add 2 Shiners, will they get eaten by the Sunfish?


I want a cold-hardy algae eater. I was thinking of 1 male Florida Flag Fish (they're prettier than the females).

B) Will a lone male FFF get along with the shiners &/or sunfish? Will he be lonely having no other fish of his same genus? Or conversely, because he's semi-aggressive, is it better that he be a solitary Jordanella?


C) On the same note, will the Sunfish be lonely with no other sunfish? If so, is my tank too small to add a tiny Orangespotted Sunfish? (they are even smaller than the Northern Longear)


D) Will black smooth river pebbles be sufficient as substrate? Or will the sunfish want a coarse gravel?

Thanks,

Christine
Pittsburgh, PA

 

[Pyramid_Party]

I think for just the Northern longear the tank is kind of on the small side. If adding all those other fish it would really be a crowded overstocked tank. To answer your question about the fish getting lonely, I don't think that would bother them as much as being cramped into a tank. Should think about getting a 20 long. Plus I think shiners like being in schools. And shiners get a good size on them too. The general rule of thumb is that if it fits in their mouth they will get eaten. So if you are wondering if a fish will eat another think about that. Also don't overestimate fish, what you think they can't swallow you'll be surprised. I think the gravel choice is ok, I don't think Sunfish are all that picky about substrate.

 

[Umbra]

Flagfish should be fine with small longears and the larger, tougher shiner species.

 

[Pyramid_Party]

I don't think any of the fish will be able to swallow one another but there could be aggression issues. The only problem with this plan is tank size IMO. Out of all the fish they will be fine solitary except maybe the shiners. They like being in schools and I think they like some current in the tank.

 

[Noto]

If you're talking about bait shop shiners, they won't get eaten by the sunny unless they're tiny, but they need room. They're usually golden shiners, which easily get 6" long (I think the record's around 14"). Treat them like tinfoil barbs as far as space needs. Longears are more aggressive than orangespots; I'd go with one or the other, and only one individual in a tank that size.

 

[Kaliedoscope]

I am also saying that tank is too small for a longear. I would say 55 minimum, because of what Ive seen in nature around here, they get about 6-7 inches long and 2 inches thick before they start breeding in earnest. females are smaller though, but drab. Of course that is in nature. Also I'm not sure about longears but i know green sunfish are piscivores. I doubt that combo would work anyhow in a 12. sorry mate

 

[DeckedOutLoft]

I am also saying that tank is too small for a longear. I would say 55 minimum, because of what Ive seen in nature around here, they get about 6-7 inches long and 2 inches thick before they start breeding in earnest. females are smaller though, but drab. Of course that is in nature. Also I'm not sure about longears but i know green sunfish are piscivores. I doubt that combo would work anyhow in a 12. sorry mate

From what I've seen online, the Northern Longear is a lot smaller. Their average length is only 3.5". (I pasted the sources below)

The typical NLS length:
2.5 - 4.5 inches

Rainbow Shiners:
3 inches

American flagfish:
2.5 inches

I'll skip the OSS altogether & get only 1 NLS & 1 FFF.

With the rule of 1 gallon/inch, the 12 gallon Fluval Edge should be close enough (I hope)
1 NLS, 1 FFF, 3 RS = 4.5"+2.5"+2(3")=13 gallons

Pyramid - so here's another question - if shiners like to be in a school, will 2 be enough? Is it better to have only 2 in an understocked tank? Or squeeze in 1 more three inch Rainbow Shiner so that they can school together, even though it may crowd out the other fish??




http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/spe...eIndex/longearsunfish/tabid/6676/Default.aspx
http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/factsheet.aspx?SpeciesID=592
http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.aspx?SpeciesID=663

 

[DeckedOutLoft]

Flagfish should be fine with small longears and the larger, tougher shiner species.

Thanks Xiao - the shiner that I like are rainbow & they're only 3 inches, so they're not one of the larger species.

Honestly, selecting the algae eater has been the hardest part of picking the fish. I love Longears & Rainbows --- but I'm really getting an FFF because of its algae eating skills. It's hardly one of my favorite fish.

Do you have any other algae eating alternatives to suggest?

I love how Zebra Otos look !!! But I read that they're sensitive....& since they like to gulp air, I was afraid that my 12 gallon tall Fluval Edge tank wouldn't be ideal for them.

I was thinking of an SAE (even though that also would ruin the "Native NA" theme), but was afraid that my tank wouldn't be warm enough for it when I turn down the thermostat to 66 on Winter nights....(I know the tank won't get that cold, but being only 12 gallons, it won't retain its daytime heat like a larger tank would)....

 

[DeckedOutLoft]

If you're talking about bait shop shiners, they won't get eaten by the sunny unless they're tiny, but they need room. They're usually golden shiners, which easily get 6" long (I think the record's around 14"). Treat them like tinfoil barbs as far as space needs. Longears are more aggressive than orangespots; I'd go with one or the other, and only one individual in a tank that size.

I agree Noto about picking one or the other. I was afraid that a solitary sunfish would feel lonely, but from the replies, it sounds like it's more important to give fish their space, rather than buddies of the same species.....thanks!

 

[MN_Rebel]

Personally 12gal tank is awfully small for most sunfish species included Northern longear sunfish. A 5" northern longear isn't that rare and they are quite common. My advice: try other native species instead of longear sunfish. Bluespotted sunfish sounds good choice for your tank set.