thanks everyone.
at least one of them is quite feisty. he wouldnt get out of the tub i used to transfer (even upside down). i thought he was worn out after chasing him round the other tank so tried to gently pursuade him out with my hand and he quickly flicked his tail up. its so quick you dont even see it let alone get chance to move your hand out of the way even so small.
lucky he didnt get me though the barb/tail went between my fingers and all was well. ive been stung before so i wouldnt be worried if it happened again although its not something i would relish
i expect these pups to be a bit smaller. i have some older siblings that ive grown on ( including stumpy ) and they look good.
ive never seen one being born toby. they are just there in the morning as if elves have visited through the night. id love to get it on camera !