Would this be considered a hybrid melanura?

[FishKing5]

So I have a male melanura from the laguna yaxha location that I got from jeff rapps a little while back that paired up and spawned with a vieja melanura from the rio sarstun location that I got from Don Conkels. Here is my question...Would this be considered a hybrid of some sort or location hybrid? As some of you probably know, these two types of melanura look very different from one another with the laguna yaxha being very orange and the rio sarstun location melanura being more pink, yellow and blue. I have read that melanura/synspilum , no matter the location, have exactly the same DNA, so would this not be considered a hybrid then? Would it be a subspecies , location hybrid? duanes would you care to fill in? A guy from a local forum I'm on thinks these fry would be considered a location hybrid and would be considered a sub species. What do you all think.? Here is a pic of the young pair. I prefer breeding same location fish and wasnt expecting my male to pair up so soon with this female but it happened anyway within not even 2 weeks of getting the rio sarstun melanura

 

[dan518]

I think captive breed melanura would be the best description. Personally wouldn't sell any fry though.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

They would be location hybrids.
Some of the traits in regional variants are unique to that location.
Breeding a veija from one location with one from another would alter the variant for good and therefore be classed as a location hybrid.

 

[jonclark96]

I would separate the fish from different collection locations. You went through the effort to get them with known provenance, so why mix them up?

 

[dogofwar]

the offspring would not technically be a hybrid because both fish are the same species. They would be different than either geographic variant, though.

If, for whatever reason, V. synispila taxonomically became a different species again, then the offspring would be hybrids.

Kind of speaks to the stupidity of whether something is technically a hybrid or not as the arbiter of whether it's "acceptable" or not. The offspring will be different and shouldn't be in circulation for all of the reasons that hybrids should not (especially without proper labeling).

Matt

 

[FishKing5]

I would separate the fish from different collection locations. You went through the effort to get them with known provenance, so why mix them up?

That was my intention to do. I was just having to wait until this spring and figured they wouldn't be ready to pair up until this summer. Lesson learned though.

 

[darth pike]

According to the scientific definition of a hybrid, yes they would be because the scientific definition does include racial (ie location) hybrids.

Sadly, the hobby does not tend to follow this however, so most hobbyist will say no they aren't.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Technically they still are hybrids and in crossing two variants,the ancestry of each cichlid line will be lost for good.

 

[dogofwar]

Depends on your definition of hybrid. There are many. Some would consider it line breeding. But I agree...is "line breeding" that involves creating something that's different from nature different than hybridization that creates something different than nature? Not in my book...

Matt

Technically they still are hybrids and in crossing two variants,the ancestry of each cichlid line will be lost for good.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Not really.
You can line breed from a pure species from one location.
You just try to breed for a specific trait such as a high body or bigger fins.This is done by selection of fry that show the traits you are looking for.
This is not creating a hybrid it's moulding a pure species from selective breeding for a desired feature.

Catch location fish of the same species can look altogether different from one another within the same species,look at fish like veija fenastratus for example.Variants show huge diversity of colours within the same species.
If you cross the pink fenastratus with the more traditionally known colour variant,you will have created a hybrid.

I'm not fond of either approach personally, I like things left alone.