YUCK!

[Brooklynella]

I've been keeping snakes (And other reptiles) pretty much since i'm 12 and don't have a problem feeding them. However, tonight takes the cake!
Let me explain...
For the last 8 years, my Ball has been eating live mice. A few weeks ago I picked up a cute little Durmeril's that was being fed frozen/thawed mice. Without having a frozen vs live debate, I decided to give the frozen route a try. I figure hey-maybe it is easier to just feed frozen rather than have to pick up live mice from the lfs every week.
Last week went fine. I thawed 'em out in some warm water and the Dumeril's ate like a champ. My Ball couldn't find the thing at first because obviously a dead mouse does not have the heat signature that a live one has and I have a red basking lamp that i'm convinced screws up his heat seeking pits. He got his nose right on the mouse and frantically moved on because he knew there was food waiting for him somewhere! He did find it eventually and hit it hard. He constricted the thing for quite some time which I found interesting; obviously the lack of heartbeat threw him a curveball.
So last week everyone ate and was happy. This week, I take two frozen mice out of the freezer and thaw 'em out in a zip lock bag for 4 hours ( I was busy). I checked on the mice because I like to warm them up in hot tap water to make them more appealing, especially to the Dumeril's because i'm not familiar with his eating preferences yet (I submerge the zip lock in to the water; not the mice themselves). The bag was filled with blood. Gross. I rinsed them off and they stunk really bad too.
The Dumeril's went first and he hit the mouse and the things belly exploded. Right about then i'm thinking "I may puke". The ass end of this mouse was split open from somewhere and entrails were hanging out....and there's guts & blood all over my snake. He ate it up but man, it's just gross.
Needless to say i'm not sold on the whole frozen idea just yet. The only thing I can think of is maybe the lfs had a delivery that partially thawed in transit or something?

 

[Death Pony]

I found the description of the exploding mice hilarious!!!! That does sound rather groty. I think you warmed it up too much causing the skin tissue to weaken.

 

[TheMightyOscar]

this happened to me once years ago when i had my ball pythons, i went out and got a few nice fat rats, stunned them and froze them for future use, when feeding day came along i picked the fattest one, thawed it out and fed it to one of the BP's....its belly tore open and it was full of babies..

 

[jason longboard]

aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhgrooooooooooooooooooosssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!hahah.man that sucks.Feeding frozen mice is the easiest thing ive ever done.Im not sure why some of you have a curse with this.You really think its better to thump live ones and the nose bleeds and crap all over?One time i thumped a rat and from the swing of its tail alowed the skin and flesh to come out in my hand while the rat with a bone tail flew across the room.AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i almost died.Frozen saved my life.I was never happy doing that to the rodents in the first place so only my large boa gets live if i cant get the frozen.I just let them sit fur and all in warm not hot water until i know they are thaw and warm.Never had one split.Sometimes a pinkys leg will just float off.AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!Better than a entire tail sheething off in my hand.lol.

 

[davo]

lol never had that happen yet...
I use the warm water or just chuck it on a heatmat or on top of one of the fish tanks light hoods to defrost and warm them up.

 

[Brooklynella]

I found the description of the exploding mice hilarious!!!! That does sound rather groty. I think you warmed it up too much causing the skin tissue to weaken.

That's certainly a possibility but 4 hours at room temp left the mice 90% defrosted. They were in hot water for no more than 5 minutes.
I would think rapid defrosting would cause tissue damage, not leaving them out to thaw naturally.
The mice were frozen in odd shapes; their bellies were caved in. This leads me to believe they had a chance to thaw and refreeze. If anything, this caused the tissue damage, no?

I said I didn't want to have a live vs frozen debate but I have to ask: How safe is it to feed refrozen mice to snakes? If you think about it, it's not exactly "Healthy." Live mice are at least guaranted 100% fresh.
Once a mouse thaws, decay starts to set in.

 

[davo]

well your not supposed to do it, but often when I get back from the shop unless I've bought a large amount of them they will have partly defrosted on the way home. If you defrost it for example and your snake doesn't feed on it, you don't freeze it again, as you said it's bad. Mice that have been killed and then frozen straight away are going to be just as fresh as if you fed them live-no difference.

 

[Brooklynella]

well your not supposed to do it, but often when I get back from the shop unless I've bought a large amount of them they will have partly defrosted on the way home. If you defrost it for example and your snake doesn't feed on it, you don't freeze it again, as you said it's bad. Mice that have been killed and then frozen straight away are going to be just as fresh as if you fed them live-no difference.

True, but you have to consider that frozen mice/rats may not be kept frozen during transit. Sure, no doubt attempts are made but I highly doubt the same attention is spent on shipping mice as frozen vegetables destined for a Super market.

 

[elevatethis]

What source are you using for your f/t rodents? Sometimes pet stores that re-sell f/t rodents allow them partially thaw during shipping/stocking, and the refreeze, and then sell, which partially thaws again while you bring it home, then you refreeze it, then thaw it again to be fed....

Freezing and thawing over and over weakens the tissue around the abdomen of the mouse and often results in an exploding rodent.

For that reason, I recommend buying your feeders direct from the producer. You may have to buy more, but at least you can ensure that they are fresh.

Also, one comment on switching things up on your ball python...

If you've had him for 8 years eating live prey, there's a good chance that changing things over to f/t may cause feeding issues during the switch. Its hard when they get set on one thing and its easy for you to revert back to what you were doing before. Don't be surprised if he refuses food now and then during the transition. Just stick to your guns and he should catch on...just don't be surprised if his feeding becomes more sporadic.

 

[Brooklynella]

What source are you using for your f/t rodents? Sometimes pet stores that re-sell f/t rodents allow them partially thaw during shipping/stocking, and the refreeze, and then sell, which partially thaws again while you bring it home, then you refreeze it, then thaw it again to be fed....

Freezing and thawing over and over weakens the tissue around the abdomen of the mouse and often results in an exploding rodent.

For that reason, I recommend buying your feeders direct from the producer. You may have to buy more, but at least you can ensure that they are fresh.

Also, one comment on switching things up on your ball python...

If you've had him for 8 years eating live prey, there's a good chance that changing things over to f/t may cause feeding issues during the switch. Its hard when they get set on one thing and its easy for you to revert back to what you were doing before. Don't be surprised if he refuses food now and then during the transition. Just stick to your guns and he should catch on...just don't be surprised if his feeding becomes more sporadic.

This is what i've been saying; I believe the rodents were indeed allowed to defrost a little bit and then were refrozen.
I believe in keeping things simple, thus will not be ordering frozen mice from "The producer". The things cost a buck-fifty at the lfs, I don't need a gross-lot of frozen mice to feed two snakes. The store I bought them from is reputable but for the very reasons you cite, it's possible their mice thawed out a little bit. I think this could happen anywhere and the buyer should beware (Or feed live mice)
As for the Ball, i'm not concerned. He's been a great eater for years and I think I could feed him a Big Mac if I wanted to (no pickles of course) I will let you know if he does refuse a meal though.

Another possibility to consider is perhaps the source for the lfs froze a dead mouse that was a bit "Too far gone". I don't care who you buy them from-no way they are throwing out dead mice! They are sticking 'em in the freezer.