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guppy
03-22-2006, 2:05 AM
I am writing this because it is something that comes up so often.
Ich is a protozoal infection that afflicts fish and can rapidly kill them, most often by damaging gill tissue.
The organism goes through a life cycle of;
a small white spot feeding on your fish,
which drops off to the floor of your tank and encysts,
while encysted it divides into up to 2000 new mobile organisms,
the cyst ruptures, releasing the mobile organisms which seek out a host.
Only the mobile stage is vulnerable to treatment by anything that will not also kill your fish.

Here is an old fashioned but very effective method for treatment.
It can be used for most fish but morymids, corys, and some pims are sensitive to salt. Because the organism infest the tank, the whole tank should be treated.

Raise the temp of your tank to at least 85-86 degrees F.
Add aquarium salt (dissolved in water) at a ratio of 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon of water in your tank.
Now wait, while waiting it does not hurt to add a powerhead or airstone to increase the O2 level.
Over the first couple days your fish will look worse but then they will clear up. about the sixth day they will look clear but because some ecystments have not yet hatched keep the treatment up for the full 10 days.
If you are not able to raise the temperature you need to extend the treatment, at 85 the ich's life cycle is quick but at 72 it can take weeks, below 70F treat for 6 weeks.

There are medicines you can use but many fish are sensitive to them, you can also try just heat at 90-91 degrees F but some fish can't take that heat and some strains of ich can survive it.
The salt and heat method is one I have used several times with sucess.

BDawg364
03-22-2006, 2:21 AM
I think you are awesome guppy. If only I had your knowledge. I just got a job in fish at the local Petland, the closest place with fish for 20 miles, excluding Walmart. I hope someday I'll know half of what you do.

Anythingfish
03-22-2006, 10:27 AM
Guppy has given excellent advice; a salt treatment works wonders in combating Ick.

It is my intent to add clarity and strengthen some of the points already made by Guppy. I get many phone calls on fish health issues and no mater how I explain the treatment some people, especially those new to the hobby, take shortcuts; for example they just dump in some table salt and hope for the best. As mentioned it is important to raise the temperature to 85 - 86 degrees to speed up the parasite's life cycle. If you do not already have an air stone bubbling in the infected aquarium it is advisable to add one as the dissolved oxygen level drops significantly when the temperature is raised and yes the fish can suffocate from lack of oxygen.

Unfortunately many plants do not do well with this salt treatment and may appear to be failing but will usually come back in time. Removing them to a salt free environment after a thorough rinsing may save them; however they must be kept at the high temperature as well. When the Ick capsule breaks up in the plant holding tank the small parasites will be unable to find a host and will die within 24 - 48 hours. Ick is easily transferred to other fish tanks so do not share nets, heaters and wet hands between infected and non infected tanks. Fish in treatment appear to do better with a reduced feeding regiment.

When you look into the pet shop / fish store aquarium their fish may appear healthy without any signs of disease. Ask how long the fish have been in the store and when the last time new fish were added to that tank. If it has been 2 weeks or more your chances of getting disease free fish improve.

Impressive looking Clown Loaches and young Oscars are notorious for getting Ick after they are home in your tank. These and many others can tolerate salt. If you are unsure about your fish’s tolerance for salt look for answers in a reference book or ask an expert.

A salt test kit, available at your local fish store, will help you get the exact dosage. Something in the range of .2%, is where you want to be. For large aquariums that works out to about 2 pounds or slightly more than 2 cups of salt per 100 gallons. The salt I use is "Evaporated Sea Salt" available at Home Depot in 50 pound bags. Do not use salt with iodine added or water softener salt with "YPS" or any other chemicals added.

FishHeadSoup
03-22-2006, 11:33 AM
Great info all, thanks for sharing!

:clap :headbang2 :woot: :thumbsup: :) :D :headbang2 :woot:

fishnutham
03-22-2006, 12:02 PM
awsome glad its a sticky now seems like this question comes up every day just a idea but maybe you could do one for worms too seems like thats just as common some days i just get tired of answering the same question.

dapike1979
03-22-2006, 9:53 PM
:clap Thank's for the Sticky!! Keep up the good Work!! :clap :thumbsup:

FishHeadSoup
03-23-2006, 10:59 AM
Heres another Ick question for this thread...

I just had a total wipeout of my 5gallon tank because of Ick. :swear:

Should I start the entire tank over and cycle it again OR will the Ick die off with no fish in the tank? :eek:


(I think if we post other possible Ick questions here, then there can be more info for people) :)

walls
03-23-2006, 1:36 PM
Heres another Ick question for this thread...

I just had a total wipeout of my 5gallon tank because of Ick. :swear:

Should I start the entire tank over and cycle it again OR will the Ick die off with no fish in the tank? :eek:


(I think if we post other possible Ick questions here, then there can be more info for people) :)


Good question :thumbsup:

I aslo want to add that the treatment supplied by GUPPY worked as he stated on my 135. I lost no fish and have not had another infection.

guppy
03-23-2006, 2:09 PM
Heres another Ick question for this thread...

I just had a total wipeout of my 5gallon tank because of Ick. :swear:

Should I start the entire tank over and cycle it again OR will the Ick die off with no fish in the tank? :eek:


(I think if we post other possible Ick questions here, then there can be more info for people) :)
If you keep the water warm 85+ F. for several days the ich will die, The mobile stage only lives about 48 hrs without a host fish but the ecysted stage in the gravel can also last a couple days. A week at that temp with no fish should kill off the ich and end the infestation.

As an aside there is even a multitank method of curing ich that involves no meds of salt that can be used for fish like mormyrids, it involves moving the the fish into a bare bottom tank over night and moving it to a fresh tank the next day. You then empty the first tank and clean it with hydrogen peroxide or non-detergent bleach solution and set it up again.
Each day you repeat the move and clean, you keep this up for at least a week.
What this does is breaks the infestation cycle by not allowing the new parasites access to a host, the mature "spot" falls off to encyst and divide leaving fewer of them on the fish. They are killed before they hatch. Each time you move the fish it has fewer of them on it until all have matured and been killed.

rook45
03-23-2006, 2:18 PM
guppy's treatment works :thumbsup:

eh1421
03-23-2006, 2:34 PM
guppy is the man
hands down

dizlal
03-26-2006, 9:34 AM
Would it not be a idea if more of these stickies were posted on various treatments for aliments ? assuming that the people with knowledge have the time.

davo
03-26-2006, 12:43 PM
for any treatment of most diseases if theres a cure, it will be on a thousand webpages, and i guess its good guppy posted this up cause theres lots of people asking about ich especially.

also it is though fish can become imune to it, and im pretty sure my 2 gouramis are, they are the only fish that have survived a couple of outbreaks that killed all other fish.

also prevention is a key, good water quality keeps the fish immune system up, and be careful when adding new things to tank- feeders, new fish, food, plants etc.

Atarax
03-30-2006, 1:09 AM
I'm assuming this advice was meant for treatment in freshwater tanks. What would be the method for saltwater? same treatment of raised salinity and temp?

GS-Rock
03-30-2006, 4:26 PM
also when you do a break down of your tank, I boil my rocks to kill off any thing living in the cracks, My tank hasnt had ick since i had it set up which has been about 2 years so far, my friend says he has a UV filter on his set up and he has nopt have any kind of pearcites in his tank also algee blooms, but when i used to have ick in my smaller tank I used to give my fish salt baths or salt dips what ever you want to call it

guppy
03-30-2006, 7:16 PM
I'm assuming this advice was meant for treatment in freshwater tanks. What would be the method for saltwater? same treatment of raised salinity and temp?
No. I don't know the full treatment for saltwater ick but raising the salinity is not recomended.

SoCalD
03-31-2006, 12:42 PM
Thanks for the advise! I got into the hobby 1.5-2 yrs ago and to this point i've been lucky enough not to encounter any illness. It wasn't untill yesterday that I started to read on different aquatic diseases and then looking at my tank that I realized that I have Ick. So I've upping the temp and adding more salt. The normal temp of the tank is 78-79* and this morning 82.7* so i turned up the temp some more and took a salt reading and its at 0.1% so I added some more salt. I'll see what it's at when I get home from work later tonight.

So ultimatly I want 85-86* for the next week and salt leval at what, 0.2%? I read somewhere that cory cats don't do well with the higher level of salt. I'm afraid of loosing fish from the increased temp and salt levels. Will I have any other issues with any of the other fish in the tank?

2- albino cory (1.75-2")
2- bronze cory (1.25-1.5")
2- pictus cat (3.5-4")
2- silver tipped cat (2.5-2.75")
2- pangasius (1.5", 2.5")
4- molly (2-2.5")
1- swordtail (3.5")
4- clown loach (2-2.75")
1- pleco (6")
1- paradise gourami (3")
4- x-ray tetra (1.5-1.75")
1- Bolivian Ram (2")
1- stripped raphael (2.75")
various black/neon tetra (1.5-1.75")
various ghost shrimp

I think that's it.....
Again, thanks for all the help. I've learned so much in my week of being a member.

SoCalD
03-31-2006, 2:03 PM
I just rememberd that i have 1- 2.5" madagascar rainbow.

cciesielski
04-02-2006, 9:43 PM
ur the smartest man alive!!

guppy
04-03-2006, 12:48 AM
The pictus will also be one to watch, look for erratic or lethargic behavior and cloudy eyes, if that shows up back off in the salt or seperate the, pangasius and silver tips do okay with it. Clowns, plecos, and gouramis are also okay, I don't know about the ram but apistos were okay. neons were okay but I have not tried black ones or raphaels or x-rays. Mollys and swordtails do well in that level

Scottfree
04-04-2006, 8:36 PM
So is there any difference between ick and ich? I've seen some of my fish scratching against rocks, but haven't seen any white spots? What is this? In my 110 the a coupel fish were scratching but haven't seen them do this in about a month, I've used a fair amount of salt but haven't kicked up the heat....

guppy
04-04-2006, 8:47 PM
Ick, ich, and white spot are the same thing. There are a couple things that cause a fish to "
flash" but if it has been a month it seems you dodged the bullet.

SoCalD
04-05-2006, 1:41 PM
Thanks guppy. Its been almost a week and the fish all seemed to be really active the first day or two with the increased heat and salt level and they have seemed to have calmed back down to normal levels. They are still overly active when i feed them, but that might be due to the reduced feedings. I use to feed them 2x a day, once when i turned on the light before i left for work and at night when i turn off the light after i get home from work. I haven't noticed any changes in the clown loach thus far and i've noticed a spot or two on the silver tipped and one of the pangasius. It's almost been a week, and there is no sign of it clearing up.

MikeVance
04-18-2006, 11:38 AM
Thanks Guppy for the information! My Oscar is Happy again!:woot:

mssassysan2000
05-07-2006, 1:12 AM
GREAT INFORMATION GUPPY I SURE NEEDED IT:clap :clap :thumbsup:

cichlid savage
05-08-2006, 1:34 PM
1 question how often do you add the salt?

guppy
05-08-2006, 5:21 PM
Add it at the start of treatment and then only add more if you do a water change, use 2 teaspoons per gallon for each gallon of water you remove and replace.

cichlid savage
05-08-2006, 6:14 PM
Cool thanks. I dont have ich currently (knock on wood) but i did have it devastate a tank in the pas. t:rip, nothing i tried worked. this might have.:thumbsup:

savage

fishyz
07-06-2006, 10:04 PM
Where did you learn this stuff guppy.

goldie2
08-01-2006, 6:16 PM
when you boil the rocks do you also boil the decorations or just throw them away and start over

goldie2
08-01-2006, 6:20 PM
i have 2 ryunkin goldfish that are huge and beautifull but one has a big white spot on its head and the other had some on his tail i just got a book on them after 3 years of having them i started the salt and heat treatment 2 days ago but did not know about the rocks so doing that now. any other suggestions?

goldie2
08-01-2006, 6:33 PM
how long to boil rocks?

jpatz18
08-24-2006, 6:52 AM
i would say 2 min(water is bowling) 3 min if your not sure anything really withstand the heat like that for a long period of time..could you?

hoosier
10-03-2006, 2:47 AM
duude thanks guppy it totally worked. the ich really started to show up on the fish o the 4th day but it subsided after. now it's all gone =)

guppy
10-03-2006, 9:58 AM
:thumbsup:

ChileRelleno
10-20-2006, 11:48 PM
Besides just speeding up ICH's lifecycle, high temp alone can kill ICH, it does this by interferring/stopping with it's ability to succesfully reproduce...
87'-88'f is usually quite suffcient and most tropical fish can handle these temps and slightly higher with little problem if care is taken to avoid O2 depletion.
Combine this with salt's ability to kill the ICH protozoa and it is a very effective non-medicinal cure.

This is my standard canned reply for ICH...

Read these articles, read the linked articles/documents in their links, the Skeptical Aquarist has some especially good links.
"Knowledge is Power" & "Know thy Enemy", read, read, read, read, read...
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php

Lets dispel a common 'Fish Myth' right off the bat...
ICH is NOT always present in the water/fish...
It is not airborne, it doesn't travel by Spores, it will not come in via tap-water during a PWC and it does not lay dormant.
It must be introduced in some way as noted below.

If you follow through on the 'Heat & Salt Treatment' as specified, I practically guarantee the 100% eradication of ICH within your tank...
Unless you re-introduce it thru lack of quarantine/preventative treatment with new fish, unquarantined/untreated transfers of plants, decor, water or by cross contamination thru the use of equipment in multiple tanks.

'Heat & Salt', either of these treatments alone can/will kill the ICH protozoa, together they eradicate ICH very effectively and completely.
This treatment is especially safe with Oscars as they are very tolerant of both heat & salt.
Please be aware that some fish, inverts and plants may not handle heat or salt well and treatment may need to be adjusted to fit their needs.


Temperature:
Raise it slowly, but ASAP, to at least 86'f, preferably 87'-88'f.
One degree (1'f) every twelve (12) hours is the normally recommended interval for increasing heat, but in a emergency like ICH I'd raise as much as one degree (1'f)every six (6) hours.

Duration:
Hold temp for at least two weeks after the last sign of ICH.

Oxygenate:
This is extremely important because water holds less O2 at higher temperatures.
Filter outflow splash, spraybar or powerhead flow directed at surface, airstone/bubblewands are good ways to increase surface agitation.

Salt:
Salt is not required but it is IMHO very helpful and I recommend the combination of Heat & Salt.

By raising salt levels to 2-3 ppm or 1.002-1.003 specific gravity above what one normally keeps the tank at can destroy the Ich parasites. It has a strong effect on osmosis, and dehydrates the parasite to the point the parasite can no longer function and dies. Again, raising levels slowly but not too slowly is key here; raising salt 1 ppm per day is recommended. Generally 7.6 grams of salt per gallon is equal to 2 ppm or 1.002-1.003 specific gravity . However, it?s the chloride ions which are necessary for the treatment, and different salts have different levels of chloride. It?s best to purchase a hydrometer which measures low levels of salt to ensure proper dosage.
2 weeks at those levels sure eradicate all the parasites. Again, be sure all the fish in your tank can deal with those levels of salt. On that note, most scaleless fish CAN handle these levels of salt. Plecos and Loaches especially do fine despite Internet rumors to the contrary. It has been noted some tetras and Cory's do not do well with salt, however.

Based on everything that I’ve read to date, I would feel comfortable adding 2-3 tablespoons salt per 5 gallons if I were also using the high temperature treatment outlined above. If I were using salt alone, I would work my way up to 4-5 tablespoons per 5 gallons. We don’t want to skimp on our treatment if we hope to permanently eliminate this pest. Salt should be added slowly over the course of 24-48 hours or so (always dissolve in a small container of tank water first). Keep a close eye on your fish and perform an immediate water change if they show any additional signs of stress (beyond what the Ich is already causing).
I recommend continuing the 'Salt treatment' for the duration of the 'Heat treatment'.
Use at your discretion.
Be aware that some Cats, Plecs, Cories, Loaches and etc, can have adverse reactions to salt.

For detailed info about salt check this out, http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml

Water Changes/Vacuuming SubstrateWater changes are very helpful in fighting ICH infestations.
Using a gravel vacuum, do a large water change and thorough vacuuming water on a daily basis.
This eliminates a great number of trophozoites and tomites from the water/substrate.

Other ways to combat ICH
A UVS, Ultraviolet sterilizer when properly setup will kill free-floating ICH.
A Diatom filter will capture and kill ICH too.
Micron filtration depending on the size may perform as Diatom does.


Medications:
I would only recommend the use of standard* medications as a last resort, and used in conjunction with the heat treatment at slightly lower temps, 80'-82'F, these temps will greatly speed up the life-cycle and shorten the time needed to medicate successfully.
IMO this is the last resort, a truly desperate measure for a ICH infestation gone unchecked...
I cannot recommend any of the standard* meds, use at your own risk.
Their effectiveness when used as directed is controversial, despite manufactures claims some still seem to affect a tanks bio-filter and many fish-keepers report undue stress related complications.
Many ICH meds will adversely affect/kill scaleless fishes and inverts.
Many ICH meds will also further deplete oxygen levels, take countermeasures as per above.

*A non standard med, ICH-Attack.
ICH-Attack is a 100% natural remedy that has proven anti-protozoal and anti-fungal properties.
Active ingredient is Naphtoquinone which is not known to be carcinogenic as many standard meds are.
Manufactured by Kordon, available at various retailers.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12100&N=2004+113016

If you use standard meds the read this...


Do a water change prior to starting treatment and remove the carbon from the filter media; not the entire filter. If the carbon is part of the filter cartridge, make a slit in the side of the filter media and remove the carbon.
Be aware meds will most likely destroy the nitrifying bacterial colonies. Be prepared to measure ammonia and nitrite levels, and reduce the levels if necessary, by water changes or ammonia/nitrite reducers (this is the only time you?ll see me recommend their use!). Water changes likely will affect levels of meds in the tank, and you may need to adjust doses to keep the meds at the levels needed to kill the theronts.
Once treatment is finished, you?ll need to remove the meds from the water. Best way to do this is to run fresh activated carbon in your filter for a couple of days.
** Do note, the directions on the meds are generic; if you remember from the earlier discussion ich has a life cycle with only one stage susceptible to meds. Do not follow the directions when it comes to length of dosing times as some will claim to eradicate Ich in as little as one dose. The first treatment will only kill a percentage of the parasites (remember the Ich life cycle). It?s better to continue treatment till 3 days after seeing the last white spot on your fish; this way you can be fairly sure you have eradicated all the parasites.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32


Please realize that ICH like everything else in the world has it's exceptions, however rare.
There has been cases where ICH has been able to complete its full life cycle under the fishes slimecoat/skin, rendering it for all intents untreatable.
There are cases where ICH has survived salt as high as five (5) tablespoon per five (5) gallons. (Not sure as to what this dosage equaled when measured in 'ppm' or 'specific gravity'.)
There is one (That I know of.) reported and documented case where ICH survived temps beyond 87'-88'f.
These are rare exceptions, not the norm.


These are my opinions, this is how I would treat my fish, just my $0.02...
Goodluck!

guppy
12-03-2006, 4:24 PM
I have done quitye a bit of research on this and for the most part have too agree, temp. alone will mainly work.. 88-92 F. the problem is that there are 2 strains, one out of China and one out of Florida, that survive temps. that high, there are also strains that survive high salt content.n No known strain survives the combination of temps higher than 88 F and more than 1 tsp salt/g.

ChileRelleno
12-03-2006, 7:31 PM
I have done quitye a bit of research on this and for the most part have too agree, temp. alone will mainly work.. 88-92 F. the problem is that there are 2 strains, one out of China and one out of Florida, that survive temps. that high, there are also strains that survive high salt content.n No known strain survives the combination of temps higher than 88 F and more than 1 tsp salt/g.I too had carefully researched my info and came to the same conclusions as you Guppy, which is why I always recommend the Heat & Salt treatment for most fish.

I've defended this position with facts & hard science when challenged and had one skeptic go so far as to contact the doctorate holding researcher of one of the key studies...
He was rewarded with a reply of confirmation. ;)

I'm very biased against meds (primarily anti-bacterials) and often just euthanise rather than treat a advanced/chronic disease/infestation, especially with new fish still in quarantine.
I'm a major fan of catching problems early and treating with natural remedies, e.g. Mela/Pimafix, ICH-Attack (more than just antiprotozoan), heat, salts and others.

ChrisG23
12-06-2006, 12:44 AM
I have a 55G tank with mostly s.a. ciclids, and a sabertoothed payara (or paraya i forget) and the saber toothed p has ich bad, all over him.

I raised the tank temp to 86 and added the recomended amount of aquarium salt, but i have a few questions.....
1) will the fish i listed hold up the the high temps, i usualy keep the tank at 78 to 80 deg.
2) I use 2 aquaclear 70's and a magnum 350 for filtration, and have a lot of topwater agitation, should i still use a bubbler or power head for more, or is that overkill?

Thanks for all replies, and for this excelent sticky, i will keep you posted on the status of my fish.....Chris

ChileRelleno
12-06-2006, 1:06 AM
I have a 55G tank with mostly s.a. ciclids, and a sabertoothed payara (or paraya i forget) and the saber toothed p has ich bad, all over him.

I raised the tank temp to 86 and added the recomended amount of aquarium salt, but i have a few questions.....
1) will the fish i listed hold up the the high temps, i usualy keep the tank at 78 to 80 deg.
2) I use 2 aquaclear 70's and a magnum 350 for filtration, and have a lot of topwater agitation, should i still use a bubbler or power head for more, or is that overkill?

Thanks for all replies, and for this excelent sticky, i will keep you posted on the status of my fish.....ChrisAll your fish should be able to handle higher temps without a problem as long as you aerate, your AC's outflows should suffice, perhaps lower the water level and get some splash.
You ideally need to raise the temp to 87'F> for best results.

ChrisG23
12-06-2006, 1:49 AM
I just checked my salinity with my elcheapo marineland hydrometer and its currently at about .002 . If the concensus is that it should be higher, i will raise it more tomorrow, as well as the temp. I am only at hour one of treatment, and want to do this gradually.
Although i have only one fish with a high monitary value, (the sabertoothed p) i absolutely dont want to loose any fish cause i would feel like i didnt do a good job as a hobbyist. I try to take pride in my tank.

ChileRelleno
12-06-2006, 2:00 AM
I just checked my salinity with my elcheapo marineland hydrometer and its currently at about .002 . If the concensus is that it should be higher, i will raise it more tomorrow, as well as the temp. I am only at hour one of treatment, and want to do this gradually.
Although i have only one fish with a high monitary value, (the sabertoothed p) i absolutely dont want to loose any fish cause i would feel like i didnt do a good job as a hobbyist. I try to take pride in my tank.Salt:
Salt is not required but it is IMHO very helpful and I recommend the combination of Heat & Salt.



By raising salt levels to 2-3 ppm or 1.002-1.003 specific gravity above what one normally keeps the tank at can destroy the Ich parasites. It has a strong effect on osmosis, and dehydrates the parasite to the point the parasite can no longer function and dies. Again, raising levels slowly but not too slowly is key here; raising salt 1 ppm per day is recommended. Generally 7.6 grams of salt per gallon is equal to 2 ppm or 1.002-1.003 specific gravity . However, it?s the chloride ions which are necessary for the treatment, and different salts have different levels of chloride. It?s best to purchase a hydrometer which measures low levels of salt to ensure proper dosage.
2 weeks at those levels sure eradicate all the parasites. Again, be sure all the fish in your tank can deal with those levels of salt. On that note, most scaleless fish CAN handle these levels of salt. Plecos and Loaches especially do fine despite Internet rumors to the contrary. It has been noted some tetras and Cory's do not do well with salt, however.



Based on everything that I’ve read to date, I would feel comfortable adding 2-3 tablespoons salt per 5 gallons if I were also using the high temperature treatment outlined above. If I were using salt alone, I would work my way up to 4-5 tablespoons per 5 gallons. We don’t want to skimp on our treatment if we hope to permanently eliminate this pest. Salt should be added slowly over the course of 24-48 hours or so (always dissolve in a small container of tank water first). Keep a close eye on your fish and perform an immediate water change if they show any additional signs of stress (beyond what the Ich is already causing).

ChrisG23
12-07-2006, 12:19 AM
water temp is 86
Salinity is .002
Ich as spread to my flower horn, green terror, 3 out of 5 convicts, red terror, pike, and even my bushynose plecko..... im screwed...

ChrisG23
12-07-2006, 2:05 AM
UPDATE

I raised the tanks temp to 88 degrees, and added more salt, the current specific gravity is .0045 . Things have deffinitely gotten worse since last night. i dont know what else to do.

ChileRelleno
12-07-2006, 3:41 AM
UPDATE

I raised the tanks temp to 88 degrees, and added more salt, the current specific gravity is .0045 . Things have deffinitely gotten worse since last night. i dont know what else to do.All of your fish can handle 88'F, and that temp should suffice nicely, be sure to add more aeration at higher temps.
I would recommend bringing the salinity right up to BW salinity, your at .0045, take it up to 1.000>.

My fish...
I'd go to 89'F and 1.000> an hit'em with ICH-Attack, all the while my tank'd be practically boiling with additional aeration to counter lowered O2.

guppy
12-07-2006, 10:27 AM
Something to bear iun mind is that the infestation looks worse before it gets better. the higher temps cause the encapsulated stage to hatch faster releasing more parasites, these new parasites will go through the feeding stage quickly then will release and die before producing more. The main thing is don't panic, the first couple days of treatment always seem the worst.

lewa9918
12-08-2006, 1:54 AM
I hav 1ick infected golden gourami

waited 4 a week but virus did not spread:headbang2


need answer urgently:irked: :confused: :eek: :( :irked: :irked: :irked:

guppy
12-08-2006, 12:08 PM
I hav 1ick infected golden gourami

waited 4 a week but virus did not spread:headbang2


need answer urgently:irked: :confused: :eek: :( :irked: :irked: :irked:
As long as you know it is ick you should start the salt/heat treatment, it can spread quickly and can kill even tough fish like gouramis, which can easily handle the salt and the temps.
Are you sure it is ick? Appears as salt like grains on fish?

ChrisG23
12-12-2006, 3:32 AM
***UPDATE***

It appears there is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. All my fish excluding the pike are ich free, and even he looks much better. I am on day 5 of treatment, but will keep up the salt n temp till sat., when a massive water change and tank cleaning will be done. The tank got pretty cloudy today, so i did a 15g w/c, we"ll see how it looks in the morning once my RO filter refills the tank. I think the salt may have killed of much or all of the bacteria that converts the nitrate to nitrite ( i think thats how it goes that always confused me ).

I will give another update later in the week once more progress is made.


Once again, thanks to all for their help with my tank.....Chris :thumbsup:

ChileRelleno
12-12-2006, 11:04 AM
ChrisG23,
you must keep the Heat & Salt treatment going for two (2) weeks after the last visible sign of infestation. You can lower the salt a bit if you must, but definitely keep the heat above 87'F.
ICH may not be readily visible in the gills and others areas, sustained treatment will eradicate all the little buggers.
Not following thru will very likely result in another bout and could result in any surviving protozoa becoming resistant to heat/salt.

Salt doesn't kill beneficial bacteria. Likely that heat has resulted in a bacterial bloom, nothing that water changes/vacuuming & rinsing media can't fix.

You must maintain the treatment for two (2) weeks after last sign of infestation or face re-infestation!

ChileRelleno
12-12-2006, 11:14 AM
I hav 1ick infected golden gourami

waited 4 a week but virus did not spread:headbang2


need answer urgently:irked: :confused: :eek: :( :irked: :irked: :irked:
ICH is not a virus...
Ich is a protozoan ecto-parasite.
And a very nasty little bugger at that...
You waited a week!?!? Your lucky you still have a Gourami or any other fish.

See either Guppy's or my intial posts, I've quoted a in-depth article I wrote, and it has links to other articles/discussion, pics and treatment advice.

Your answer is in this thread... Read.

braddawson09
12-13-2006, 6:25 PM
Impressive looking Clown Loaches and young Oscars are notorious for getting Ick after they are home in your tank.


i wish i would have known that i got those fish at the same time a week later they have ick and so does my columbain sharks im trying the heat and salt .

T
12-15-2006, 1:05 AM
okay.. i coudl actually see the ick swimming in my tank. thats a lil crazy kinda creepy. but one of m clown loach is covered but all my other fish are fine. but i treated the whole tank threw in a grip of salt.. just wondering if my rays will be okay with all the salt?

FishSkins
12-15-2006, 1:12 AM
Guppy your right a very old way, many times in life people don't under stand the fact the older is better than anything NEW, take a old GTO 69/70 maybe ( nothing like it )
that was a awesome post

guppy
12-15-2006, 12:15 PM
Guppy your right a very old way, many times in life people don't under stand the fact the older is better than anything NEW, take a old GTO 69/70 maybe ( nothing like it )
that was a awesome post
Are you hitting on me?:naughty: :ROFL:

FishSkins
12-15-2006, 4:58 PM
Are you hitting on me?:naughty: :ROFL:




:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: ummmmmmmmmm NO lol

ChrisG23
12-16-2006, 3:59 AM
***UPDATE***

All fish apear to have been eraticated of the ich, and for that i can thank all the help from you MFK members. :headbang2 My problem now is very cloudy water. I had been running only the micron filters in my mag350, and i think that may have helped the bacteria. I have done a 20% w/c two days ago and a 50% yesterday and another 50% today. The tank is a little better but i gotta let the fish adjust, I'm afraid of overdoing it with the w/c's. Will this cloudiness continue untill i drop the temp to normal levels? Thanx all.....ChrisG23

braddawson09
12-22-2006, 12:02 PM
thank for the info guppy it worked and all my fish are happy now

Brooklynella
12-22-2006, 12:11 PM
I'm assuming this advice was meant for treatment in freshwater tanks. What would be the method for saltwater? same treatment of raised salinity and temp?



Lower the salinity in saltwater tanks. It is also possible to give saltwater fish a freshwater bath to kill ICH but this can be risky.

Diatom filters work really well too.

-Asianguy-
01-14-2007, 9:04 AM
well i now have ick in my community tank. filled with tetras loaches gurami angel fish and other laid back guys.

I've notice yesterday that the fighting fish and mollies have a few spot. so i took the advice on the thread and went to the pet store to buy the salt.

me: you guys got aquarium salt.
fish guy: yeah we do you want to make a salt water tank?
me: no its to kill ick. is there a difference between that kind of salt and the salt for fresh water?
fish guy: no we just use hawaiian salt.

so after a few talks with the guy i find out that they just use hawaiian salt aka sea salt. i already got it since we use it for cooking. (its real good on steak) but he tells me salt really kills the plants and to take it out.

but what i wanted to know is how much does store bought aquarium salt cost?

I'm goin to try it and let you know know it works for me.

guppy
01-14-2007, 5:05 PM
Aquarium salt should run around $1.20 a lb..

Brooklynella
01-14-2007, 5:29 PM
I wouldn't suggest putting synth sea salt in a freshwater tank to cure ICH. Sea salt raises PH through the roof and increases hardness. Use Aquarium salt of Kosher salt instead.

guppy
01-14-2007, 8:35 PM
agreed, sea salt adds all kindsof otrher values such as phosphates, calcium salts, and potassiuum salts, not needed in a FW tank. Ice cream salt or kosher salt (without anti clumping agents) work well, even table salt works short term.

Brooklynella
01-15-2007, 9:42 AM
agreed, sea salt adds all kindsof otrher values such as phosphates, calcium salts, and potassiuum salts, not needed in a FW tank. Ice cream salt or kosher salt (without anti clumping agents) work well, even table salt works short term.



Table salt has idodine. Use short term only!:)

missyme06
01-25-2007, 11:50 AM
how high should you raise the temp if its a cold water tank that is usully around 68 degrees F?
i have Doc. Wellfish Aquarium Salt, this will work right?

missyme06
01-25-2007, 12:27 PM
would it work to treat all my fish in an empty quarentien tank, and bring the temp in the infected tank up to like 90 for a couple of days? i was thinking this way i could kill every thing in the tank in a couple days while the fish get a few weeks of treatment in the quarentien tank.

does the age of the infected fish affect the tretment i should be doing?

Brooklynella
01-25-2007, 8:22 PM
would it work to treat all my fish in an empty quarentien tank, and bring the temp in the infected tank up to like 90 for a couple of days? i was thinking this way i could kill every thing in the tank in a couple days while the fish get a few weeks of treatment in the quarentien tank.

does the age of the infected fish affect the tretment i should be doing?



Moving your fish to another tank would work. The ICH would die within 48-60 hours without a host. Raising temp to 90 would not make a difference.

missyme06
01-25-2007, 9:12 PM
could Ich have an affect on my shrimp?

Lupin
01-25-2007, 10:21 PM
could Ich have an affect on my shrimp?
Nope.:)

missyme06
01-26-2007, 1:19 AM
will the salt hurt my shrimp?

ChileRelleno
01-26-2007, 2:59 AM
Moving your fish to another tank would work. The ICH would die within 48-60 hours without a host. Raising temp to 90 would not make a difference.Actually, it would make a major difference.

The Tomont (2nd life-stage) can take anywhere from several hours to several days to complete it's encysted reproduction stage depending on temp.
The Theront (3rd life-stage) can last as long as 55hrs/2.5days at cooler temps, it too is affected by temp just as the Tomont is.
These phases are affected by temp, cooler=longer/warmer=shorter.
Together these stages can last up to 5-6 days in cooler water...

Well beyond 48-60 hrs/2-2.5 days.
By increasing temp the time needed to guarantee eradication via lack of host could be cut to 2-3days, minimum.

With warmer temps (75'-86'f) the life cycle is dramatically speeded up, at high temps (87'-88')proper reproduction is severly hampered/discontinued and at temps beyond that the protozoa is usually killed outright.
Dosing the tank with moderately high salinity at this time would be very detrimental to the protozoa too.

Heat & Salt, these two combined make a very deadly duo.

ChileRelleno
01-26-2007, 3:12 AM
would it work to treat all my fish in an empty quarentien tank, and bring the temp in the infected tank up to like 90 for a couple of days? i was thinking this way i could kill every thing in the tank in a couple days while the fish get a few weeks of treatment in the quarentien tank.

does the age of the infected fish affect the tretment i should be doing?If your fish are tolerant of salt you could dose moderate-high level salinity combined with ICH-Attack (A natural, non-toxic/medicinal remedy) and not have to raise the temp beyond 75'f, this would be enough to speed the lifecycle but not overly stress your cool water species.
.................................................. .................................................. ..............................

Only if the fish age affects it's ability to handle the treatment, a known geriatric may not handle stress as well and more care should be taken.

ChileRelleno
01-26-2007, 3:15 AM
will the salt hurt my shrimp?I do believe they should handle salinity right up to brackish with no problems...
Don't quote me tho, my knowledge of FW shrimp is basic, research it.

Brooklynella
01-26-2007, 8:39 AM
Actually, it would make a major difference.

The Tomont (2nd life-stage) can take anywhere from several hours to several days to complete it's encysted reproduction stage depending on temp.
The Theront (3rd life-stage) can last as long as 55hrs/2.5days at cooler temps, it too is affected by temp just as the Tomont is.
These phases are affected by temp, cooler=longer/warmer=shorter.
Together these stages can last up to 5-6 days in cooler water...

Well beyond 48-60 hrs/2-2.5 days.
By increasing temp the time needed to guarantee eradication via lack of host could be cut to 2-3days, minimum.

With warmer temps (75'-86'f) the life cycle is dramatically speeded up, at high temps (87'-88')proper reproduction is severly hampered/discontinued and at temps beyond that the protozoa is usually killed outright.
Dosing the tank with moderately high salinity at this time would be very detrimental to the protozoa too.

Heat & Salt, these two combined make a very deadly duo.


What kind of effect would 90 degree temp have on the bacterial bed? I would be afraid to try it as once the fish are added back, all hell may break loose!
80 degrees? Yes. 90 degrees? No way.

ChileRelleno
01-26-2007, 10:59 AM
What kind of effect would 90 degree temp have on the bacterial bed? I would be afraid to try it as once the fish are added back, all hell may break loose!
80 degrees? Yes. 90 degrees? No way.90'f, no effect at all.
http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

Temperature

The temperature for optimum growth of nitrifying bacteria is between 77-86° F (25-30° C).

Growth rate is decreased by 50% at 64° F (18° C).

Growth rate is decreased by 75% at 46-50° F.

No activity will occur at 39° F (4° C)

Nitrifying bacteria will die at 32° F (0° C).

Nitrifying bacteria will die at 120° F (49° C)

Nitrobacter is less tolerant of low temperatures than Nitrosomonas. In cold water systems, care must be taken to monitor the accumulation of nitrites.

Brooklynella
01-26-2007, 11:29 AM
90'f, no effect at all.
http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

Shut me up.:)

missyme06
01-26-2007, 6:31 PM
ok so i just finished buying text books and wont have any money for the next two weeks. but i have lots of doc wellfish salt so i was thinking since i don't have a heater i will just have to treat the whole tank at 68 degrees for 6 to 8 weeks.

i just did a 50% water change while vacuuming my gravel (i figured i might get some of them that way). no salt has been added yet. not worried about my plants dieing, i can replace those.

I'm just afraid of over dosing on accident.

should i be adding a little of salt every day for a week till i get up to the full amount for my tank, or should i just dump it all in there at once (this would shock them wont it?)?

these are my favorite fish. ich sucks.

ho, and what about my filter should i have that on while the salts in there, or should i just take it out and sterilize it??

ChileRelleno
01-26-2007, 7:37 PM
Predissolve salt in dechlorinated warm water and add over several hours, observe fish for distress-generally manifest as rapid/heavy breathing.
You can buy a cheap swing arm hydrometer and use it to attain desired levels of salinity.
If at anytime your fish exhibit distress simply do a water change.

armatus
01-29-2007, 6:28 AM
hi guys,

i have 3 baby juruense's with Ick. does anyone of you have any experience with small catfishes with Ick.
thanks in advance

armatus

guppy
01-29-2007, 11:46 AM
Don't know about this species but most pimlodia cats tolerate it well, at least better than they do any malachite gree/formalin mixture.

ChileRelleno
01-30-2007, 10:18 PM
hi guys,

i have 3 baby juruense's with Ick. does anyone of you have any experience with small catfishes with Ick.
thanks in advance

armatus
Since most species of scaleless fish/Cat and etc don't handle either salt or common meds particularly well, I just remind you...
"Heat alone kills ICH, turn up the heat!"
These Cats can take the heat, crank it up... 88'-90'f.
Just remember to add aeration in some form to counter lowered 02.

Salt is a option, just start small and add slowly while observing closely.
Start with 1tsp per 10gal and work up to 1tbsp per 10gal.

midnight
02-05-2007, 11:54 PM
Since most species of scaleless fish/Cat and etc don't handle either salt or common meds particularly well, I just remind you...
will this cat be ok with salt??
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53311


Add aquarium salt (dissolved in water) at a ratio of 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon of water in your tank.
the box says add 1 tablespoonful for every 5 gallons.
2 teaspoons is about 1 tablespoon,but 2 tsp per gallon vs 1 tbsp per 5 gallons is a big difference. :irked: :confused:

guppy
02-06-2007, 8:01 AM
Actually 3 tsp=1tbsp.
They are a type of pim but unsure which, possibly Pinarampus pirinampu or even Pimelodina flavipinnis, not the lined cat as the soft dorsal is to long. I don't know that cat but almost all pims will tolerate the 2 ttsp/gallon for ich treatment for 10-14 days. Check the eyes and whisker tips several times a day, If the eyes cloud or the whisker tips start to gray and erode do a 50% water change with freshwater. The 1 tbsp/5G level mentioned on the box is for maintainance, not treatment and I have yet to see a pim that would be hurt by that level. You can also check the specific gravity of the water where you caught it.

midnight
02-06-2007, 2:16 PM
im sure the gravity there is the same everywhere on earth.


:ROFL: im sorry,had to say that. :D

the tank didnt have ich till i put them in,guess i got the fl strain of ich from the wild. :irked:
thanks for the salt info,and info about the cats. :D

guppy
02-08-2007, 1:08 PM
Gravity is greater in DC as that place sucks

monsterz
02-13-2007, 8:28 AM
I may have to treat my tank for ick. I am going to do the heat/salt treatment, but need to know what salt levels the ray can handle. Will he be able to handle the standard ick salt levels at 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon?

Thanks

CW

guppy
02-14-2007, 11:04 AM
Hmmm, I have never had a ray, might want to ask about their salt tolerence in the ray subforum found in the bottom fish section.

limz_777
02-23-2007, 11:42 PM
2 teaspoon of salt per gallon , 100 gal = ?

teaspoon or tablespoon , which is more accurate?

ChileRelleno
02-23-2007, 11:49 PM
2 teaspoon of salt per gallon , 100 gal = ?

teaspoon or tablespoon , which is more accurate?

2tspn x 100 = 4.25cups

Neither is more accurate per se, accurate is using a hydrometer to achieve desired salinity for max effect.

Remember to thoroughly premix/dissolve salt in treated warm/hot water and add over the course of several hours while observing closely.

ChileRelleno
02-23-2007, 11:56 PM
http://www.onlineconversion.com/

For all your conversion needs, drops to ml, tspns-cups... Anything.

limz_777
02-24-2007, 12:05 AM
http://www.onlineconversion.com/

For all your conversion needs, drops to ml, tspns-cups... Anything.

just measure again its 140 gal instead of 100 gal , tspns-cups?

ChileRelleno
02-24-2007, 12:20 AM
Soooo......
Use the conversion link, what measurement are you using :screwy: (JK)
280tspn(US) x 140 = 5.83cup(US), call it six (6) cups.

Yes, salt is quite capable of killing ICH by itself.
If the fish being treated can handle the salt, then I would dose at 1.002-1.003 salinity for max effect.
Buy a inexpensive swing-arm hydrometer or lowend refractometer for attaining these specific salinities.

limz_777
02-24-2007, 12:51 AM
280 teaspoon times 140 gal = 6 cups of salt

thats a lot of salt ,possible 3 cups and heat up the water alone, you state that heat alone will kill ich too, will try it once i get the heater

CinderElmo
03-06-2007, 6:45 PM
Just need a little clarification. And a disclaimer...I blew a disc in my back last night at work and so I'm a little loopie on pain meds/muscle relaxers right now. If I ramble/babble or am unclear, please forgive me.

My goldfish have Ick. I've been doing the QuICK cure. The little loves keep piling on each other in the corner of the tank, just laying there with each other. I've been doing water changes to try to perk them up, and it helps for a bit, but then they lump back in the corner. Noticed it on the Oscars as well...treated all three tanks to be sure with QuICK cure and melafix. (Total newb hobbyist here...)

Two people mentioned goldfish. One with heat and one without. My goldfish don't have a heater. Do I need to get a heater and won't the heat hurt them? I usually add aquarium salt in a container as a bath type thing, but haven't in a while. They seem to love the salt.

One person mentioned being able to actually see the Ick swimming in the tank. I noticed something today while my daughter over-exuberantly added water to the tank. The big airstone we have across the bottom of the tank has these things on the sides. They look like little worms almost...less than an 1/8" long. On closer insane inspection, they are in the filter (have a power filter because I'm crazy like that) and below the gravel line on the glass. Are these Ick? Or do I have something even more evil in there? My goldfish are my babies. They are in my kitchen as that's where I spend most of my time.

Last question, I swear...we use one bucket for water changes for all three tanks...can whatever is in the goldfish tank (if it's not ick) spread to the other tanks? If so, I'm going to cry.

10 gal - oranda, bubble eye and black mohr
30 gal - 3 cory cats, pleco and two oscars
55 gal - gold gourami, blue gourami, 2 weird navy blue gouramis, 2 paradise gouramis, 6 tiger barbs, 6 green tiger barbs, pictus, pleco, 2 mixed fruit tetras, 3 serpae tetras, rainbow shark

I think that's it...

oh, also...I have some snails...well, HAD snails is more like it. We have those crazy white ones that multiply like bunnies with the goldfish, but they're all dying off too. Had black snails in all three tanks - all died...and one yellow one - dead.

My ammonia levels are safe, nitrate and nitrite safe, soft water, ph/alk are always higher, no matter what we do. Fish don't seem to mind.

I had had two other goldfish that had died before I bought the oranda...a lionhead and some other kind...Wally, the lionhead, seemed to shrink and emaciate before he died. It broke my heart watching him. Nemo (kids name fish here) just up and died with no warning.

I do 20% water changes on goldfish twice a week (sometimes more, depending on levels) and other two tanks once a week. I change the filters on the power filters every two weeks on the goldfish and once a month on the other tanks. The two other tanks I keep between 78F - 82F. Goldfish are pretty steady at 70F. I'm putting all of this in now in case the concensus is to treat all tanks. Only goldfish have live plants. Goldfish and 30 gal have those bio-disc star things in the power filters. 30 and 55 have undergravel and power filter. 55 also has the power head as well. All have the long airstones under the gravel.

I will also peruse other threads to see if there is other help there.

I come here as often as I can but I work a lot and usually don't have time to post. Thank you all for being here and being so willing to help everyone out. If all of this has been answered before, thank you for your patience in answering again.

-Mel

oscar12
03-15-2007, 8:24 AM
my fish has the itch..i have been treating him about to weeks..it seems as it is not doing anything...i can see like little sand particles in my intire tank and on her also...I raised mt temperature and i have been adding table salt 2 teaspoons per gall.. 3 times a day....i just did a 50% water change last night and my water still looks funny..i have a blue background which shows everything clear in the tank

BigPleco
07-19-2007, 2:26 PM
Works great Guppy! Thanks for saving my fish!

Chris

ViEtStYlE
07-22-2007, 10:55 PM
Let me try it on my flower horn.. It been all over the body.

Darky
08-16-2007, 6:33 PM
Anyone know if red devils are sensitive to salt? He has what looks like an early stage of infection atm. :/

guppy
08-17-2007, 12:53 PM
Red devils are very salt tolerant

mike999g
08-25-2007, 5:39 PM
Hi guys, i've got a 200 gallon tank, and tonight I noticed that my kissing gouramis, and severums have white spot/ick.
I feel really uneasy about adding salt, as if i get it wrong, I could loose all the fish. I don't want to use medicines as they might affect the filters.
Could I just raise the temperature to clear it? To around 90f? How long will it take? are all my other fish likely to come down with it?
Thanks if you know answer, if I have to add salt I will, but Can anyone give me the right measure in grams to add for a 200 gallon tank?

ChileRelleno
08-25-2007, 6:12 PM
You do not Need to use salt, though it does help IMO.
But...
Heat alone will kill most ICH infestations.
Also you can use a great Kordon product, 'ICH-Attack' in conjunction with heat/salt, or even alone, see more below.
This is a compilation of articles/facts I assembled.
http://www.oscarfish.com/index.php?page=6&mode=article&k=16


Read these articles, read the linked articles/documents in their links, the Skeptical Aquarist has some especially good links.
"Knowledge is Power" & "Know thy Enemy", read, read, read, read, read...
SkepticalAquarist article (http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml)
AquariumAdvice article (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32)
Cichlid-Forum article (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php)

Lets dispel a common 'Fish Myth' right off the bat...
ICH is NOT always present in the water/fish...
It is not airborne, it doesn't travel by Spores, it will not come in via tap-water during a PWC and it does not lay dormant.
It must be introduced in some way as noted below.

If you follow through on the 'Heat & Salt Treatment' as specified, I practically guarantee the 100% eradication of ICH within your tank...
Unless you re-introduce it thru lack of quarantine/preventative treatment with new fish, unquarantined/untreated transfers of plants, decor, water or by cross contamination thru the use of equipment in multiple tanks.

'Heat & Salt', either of these treatments alone can/will kill the ICH protozoa, together they eradicate ICH very effectively and completely.
This treatment is especially safe with Oscars as they are very tolerant of both heat & salt.
Please be aware that some fish, inverts and plants may not handle heat or salt well and treatment may need to be adjusted to fit their needs.


Temperature:
Raise it slowly, but ASAP, to at least 86'f, preferably 87'-88'f.
One degree (1'f) every twelve (12) hours is the normally recommended interval for increasing heat, but in a emergency like ICH I'd raise as much as one degree (1'f)every six (6) hours.

Duration:
Hold temp for at least two weeks after the last sign of ICH.

Oxygenate:
This is extremely important because water holds less O2 at higher temperatures.
Filter outflow splash, spraybar or powerhead flow directed at surface, airstone/bubblewands are good ways to increase surface agitation.

Salt:
Salt is not required, but it is IMHO very helpful and I recommend the combination of Heat & Salt.
I recommend continuing the 'Salt treatment' for the duration of the 'Heat treatment'.
Use at your discretion.
Be aware that some Cats/Plecos (in particular Corydoras), Tetras, Loaches and etc, can have adverse reactions to salt.
Fishes that navigate by electric fields, like Elephant Noses, Knifefish, certain Eels should never be exposed to salt.
Many plants are intolerant-highly intolerant of salt.
[quote]By raising salt levels to 2-3 ppt or 1.002-1.003 specific gravity above what one normally keeps the tank at can destroy the Ich parasites. It has a strong effect on osmosis, and dehydrates the parasite to the point the parasite can no longer function and dies. Again, raising levels slowly but not too slowly is key here; raising salt 1 ppt per day is recommended. Generally 7.6 grams of salt per gallon is equal to 2 ppt or 1.002-1.003 specific gravity . However, it?s the chloride ions which are necessary for the treatment, and different salts have different levels of chloride. It?s best to purchase a hydrometer which measures low levels of salt to ensure proper dosage.
2 weeks at those levels sure eradicate all the parasites. Again, be sure all the fish in your tank can deal with those levels of salt. On that note, most scaleless fish CAN handle these levels of salt. Plecos and Loaches especially do fine despite Internet rumors to the contrary. It has been noted some tetras and Cory's do not do well with salt, however.

Based on everything that I’ve read to date, I would feel comfortable adding 2-3 tablespoons salt per 5 gallons if I were also using the high temperature treatment outlined above. If I were using salt alone, I would work my way up to 4-5 tablespoons per 5 gallons. We don’t want to skimp on our treatment if we hope to permanently eliminate this pest. Salt should be added slowly over the course of 24-48 hours or so (always dissolve in a small container of tank water first). Keep a close eye on your fish and perform an immediate water change if they show any additional signs of stress (beyond what the Ich is already causing).

For detailed info about salt check this out, SkepticalAquarist- Salt (http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml)

Here are the conversions/measurements for dosing salt from a reliable source, see page four (4), table 3, units in parentheses.
conversions/measurements (http://aquanic.org/publicat/usda_rac/efs/srac/410fs.pdf)
Note; you may want to adjust your dosage +/- as desired.


Water Changes/Vacuuming SubstrateWater changes are very helpful in fighting ICH infestations.
Using a gravel vacuum, do a large water change and thorough vacuuming water on a daily basis.
This eliminates a great number of trophozoites and tomites from the water/substrate.

Other ways to combat ICH
A UVS, Ultraviolet sterilizer when properly setup will kill free-floating ICH.
A Diatom filter will capture and kill ICH too.
Micron filtration depending on the size may perform as Diatom does.


Medications:
I would only recommend the use of standard* medications as a last resort, and used in conjunction with the heat treatment at slightly lower temps, 80'-82'F, these temps will greatly speed up the life-cycle and shorten the time needed to medicate successfully.
IMO this is the last resort, a truly desperate measure for a ICH infestation gone unchecked...
I cannot recommend any of the standard* meds, use at your own risk.
Their effectiveness when used as directed is controversial, despite manufactures claims some still seem to affect a tanks bio-filter and many fish-keepers report undue stress related complications.
Many ICH meds will adversely affect/kill scaleless fishes and inverts.
Many ICH meds will also further deplete oxygen levels, take countermeasures as per above.

*A non standard med, ICH-Attack.
ICH-Attack is a 100% natural remedy that has proven anti-protozoal and anti-fungal properties.
Active ingredient is Naphtoquinone which is not known to be carcinogenic as many standard meds are.
Manufactured by Kordon, available at various retailers.
DrsFosterSmith (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12100&N=2004+113016)

If you use standard meds the read this...


Do a water change prior to starting treatment and remove the carbon from the filter media; not the entire filter. If the carbon is part of the filter cartridge, make a slit in the side of the filter media and remove the carbon.
Be aware meds will most likely destroy the nitrifying bacterial colonies. Be prepared to measure ammonia and nitrite levels, and reduce the levels if necessary, by water changes or ammonia/nitrite reducers (this is the only time you?ll see me recommend their use!). Water changes likely will affect levels of meds in the tank, and you may need to adjust doses to keep the meds at the levels needed to kill the theronts.
Once treatment is finished, you?ll need to remove the meds from the water. Best way to do this is to run fresh activated carbon in your filter for a couple of days.
** Do note, the directions on the meds are generic; if you remember from the earlier discussion ich has a life cycle with only one stage susceptible to meds. Do not follow the directions when it comes to length of dosing times as some will claim to eradicate Ich in as little as one dose. The first treatment will only kill a percentage of the parasites (remember the Ich life cycle). It?s better to continue treatment till 3 days after seeing the last white spot on your fish; this way you can be fairly sure you have eradicated all the parasites.
AquariumAdvice article (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32)


Please realize that ICH like everything else in the world has it's exceptions, however rare.
There has been cases where ICH has been able to complete its full life cycle under the fishes slimecoat/skin, rendering it for all intents untreatable.
There are cases where ICH has survived salt as high as five (5) tablespoon per five (5) gallons. (Not sure as to what this dosage equaled when measured in 'ppm' or 'specific gravity'.)
There is one (That I know of.) reported and documented case where ICH survived temps beyond 87'-88'f.
These are rare exceptions, not the norm.


These are my opinions, this is how I would treat my fish, just my $0.02...
Goodluck!

mike999g
08-26-2007, 4:27 PM
Thanks for that chilirelleno, i would much rather just turn up the heat than use salt and chemicals, i've eased the tank up slowly, she is up to 86 so far, so I was going to take it up to 90, how long should I leave it at that temperature for?
Thanks for the advice, Mike.

Tokis-Phoenix
10-08-2007, 1:10 PM
Here is some more info on understanding and treating whitespot;

"What is Ich?

This is a common question that is often asked, what is ich and how is it recognisable and what causes it?
The real term is ICHTHYOPHTHIRIASIS. OR commonly known as white spot.
It is an extremely comon parasite that affects aquarium fish. It is highly infectious and potentially lethal and manifests as tiny white spots all over the fish. The spots are no larger than grains of salt. The wide host range of this parasite is it's life cycle, and speed of mutiplication especially in a tropical aquarium. When you can see the white spot on your fish it's already too late for those ich particles to be killed, they can only be killed in the parasitic stage.

FISH parasite stage under the skin and fin. }TROPHONT exits fish and forms a reproductive stage(TOMONT) } The tomont then settles on the substrate and starts its division. The Tomont can reproduce 200-800 THERONTS The Theronts must locate a fish within 24 hours otherwise it will die.It is at this stage when the free swimming Theronts can be destroyed by treatment/chemicals. If it infects a fish the cycle starts again, if not and it is killed off by the treatment the cycle stops. Early signs of white spot are when fish begin to flick themselves against rocks. Other signs are your fish swimming in an odd behaviour as if they were trying to use the water to wash away an irratation. Then you have the white spots. There are many causes for white spot, fish catch white spot like we catch a cold! Some of the more common causes are stress, bad water conditions, live food that have been infected or you've bought an already infected fish without knowing it. The main culprit is the parasite Ichthyophthrius multifiliis
Treatment: There are many remedies out on the market, most are based on either Methylene Blue or Malachite Green. Salt can also be used(not table salt),but only with salt tolerant species and if you have a major outbreak than the "big guns" need to be brought in. The big guns being UV irradiation.

Treatment

Whitespot or ICH as it is known in North America is probably the first and most commonly encountered aquarium disease that hobbiests face. For many those first few ominous white spots that appear install dread and the reaction of "oh no my fish are ill, what do i do now?".

Luckily whitespot/ICH is one of the easiest aquarium diseases to treat and by following a few simple steps can be under control in a little over a week.

First step The parasite has a 3 stage life cycle, the first is spent attached to the fish, the second in the substrate and the third free swimming in the water column. To lower the ammount of the parasite in the water and substrate do a 50% water change and vacume the entire substrate really well. This will lower the parasites ability carry on infecting your fish.

Second step While in the first stage of its life cycle the parasite is immune to any treatment, to speed up its lifecycle so it enters its second and third stage of the life cycle turn your heater/s up to 29c (84f). This will cause the parasite to drop off of the host and enter its dormant and free swimming stages where medications can attack it.

Third step As soon as the first step has been completed add the measured dose of a recomended brand of commercial whitespot/ICH treatment. In the UK i recomend Interpet #6 Anti Whitespot+ or Waterlifes Protozin, follow the directions on the back of the bottle carefully making sure not to overdose or miss any part of the course. Repeat the course if the spots are still visable 4 days after the last dose.
During the use of any medication aeration should be increased as most medications lower the ammount of free oxygen available to the fish in the water.

Salt Many people recomend the addition of 1 tsp of salt per 10gallons of water when treating for whitespot. While this does not have any direct effect on the parasite it does aid in gill function which can be benifitial with species with high oxygen requirements and aid the fishes osmotic function to replace electrolytes lost during stress. Do not use where scaleless species (eels, loaches, catfish) are present.




So to sum up, to treat the parasite successfully you need to understand how the parasite works and to use the most effective med for treating it, but also the least stressful one for your fish. For many fish this means not using salt, there are plenty of non-salt meds out there which are just as effective at getting rid of ich but do not put a strain on the fishes internal organs like salt does to many fish"

ChileRelleno
10-08-2007, 10:04 PM
The really beautiful thing about effectively treating ICH is that it is as simple as turning up the Heat.

1) Heat... Heat alone at proper levels can wreak havoc on ICH.
Generally 87'-88'F does the trick, but 88'> is lethal to all but heat resistant varieties.
The vast majority of tropical fish can handle these temps with little problem if due care is exercised to counter lowered O2 levels.

It has been found that Ich does not infect new fish at 29.4°C/85°F (Johnson, 1976), stops reproducing at 30°C/86°F (Dr. Nick St. Erne, DVM, pers. comm.), and dies at 32°C/89.5°F (Meyer, 1984), [1]

2) Salt... Salt kills ICH.

By raising salt levels to 2-3 ppt or 1.002-1.003 specific gravity above what one normally keeps the tank at, one can destroy the Ich parasites.
It has a strong effect on osmosis, and dehydrates the parasite to the point the parasite can no longer function and dies.

3) *A non standard med, ICH-Attack.
ICH-Attack is a 100% natural remedy that has proven anti-protozoal and anti-fungal properties.
Active ingredient is Naphtoquinone which is not known to be carcinogenic as many standard meds are.
Manufactured by Kordon, available at various retailers.

4) You do not need to use the popular & toxic OTC medications sold to the average ill-informed fishkeeper.
Meds which are oft carcinogenic both to our fish and us.

fishbyoch
10-22-2007, 3:24 PM
ich treatment for corys? cant salt..just heat? should i get meds or is heat enough? also i have a large abino apple snail, can it get ich...should i move it from the tank? can snail tolerate the heat? sorry for the million questions...new to this tank addiction.thank you

devlyyn
11-01-2007, 9:20 PM
Just to add my two cents.

Recently one of my silver dollars started showing signs of ich, ie. white spots all over. Within a few days all of my fish began flashing and showing other signs of discomfort, even if all did not display the characteristic white spots. I began treating the entire tank with ICH ATTACK on day 2 after noticing the spots and now, 1 week later, all the spots are gone and the fish are all acting normal.

A few notes, it may seem like its not working at first but you really need to follow the instructions and keep it up for at least a week. Second, it will darken your water and temporarily stain any white, porous (eg coral) decorations in your tank. Third, it can have a pretty nasty odor.

Other than that, I was very happy with how it worked. It did not seem to bother my fish whatsoever, which was a big concern of mine. Even my cories were perfectly happy. I did increase the temperature to about 82-83 degrees which may have helped speed up the process.

Just so you know, in my experience ICH ATTACK does exactly what it is advertised to do.

ChileRelleno
11-02-2007, 10:51 AM
Just to add my two cents.

Recently one of my silver dollars started showing signs of ich, ie. white spots all over. Within a few days all of my fish began flashing and showing other signs of discomfort, even if all did not display the characteristic white spots. I began treating the entire tank with ICH ATTACK on day 2 after noticing the spots and now, 1 week later, all the spots are gone and the fish are all acting normal.

A few notes, it may seem like its not working at first but you really need to follow the instructions and keep it up for at least a week. Second, it will darken your water and temporarily stain any white, porous (eg coral) decorations in your tank. Third, it can have a pretty nasty odor.

Other than that, I was very happy with how it worked. It did not seem to bother my fish whatsoever, which was a big concern of mine. Even my cories were perfectly happy. I did increase the temperature to about 82-83 degrees which may have helped speed up the process.

Just so you know, in my experience ICH ATTACK does exactly what it is advertised to do.

Which is exactly why I recommend it.
I wouldnt recommend something I've never used at least multiple times with good results and no noticeable adverse impacts on fish/bio-culture.

I used it once to halt and cure a apparently resistant strain of ICH on some new fish, the ICH was displaying resistance to high heat (91"F)(no salt used) and when I finally broke out the ICH-Attack it stopped it in its tracks.

I had acquired a new shoal of Cardinal tetras and they started showing ICH almost immediately.
My standard quarantine preventative treatments at the time included, a salt dip prior to introduction to the QT, raising the heat from 77'F to 87'-88'F, Salt for those species which generally handle it well (I did not salt the Cardinals), Prazipro, and one round each of anti-bacterial/parasitic/protozoan foods.

The ICH showed no signs of slowing as the heat was raised, I took it up to 91'F and still no signs of the infestation halting, it was still spreading.

I was actually enthralled to perchance have encounter a resistant strain of ICH, I would've liked to have experimented a bit, but nice Cardinals had been hard to get in my area and I wanted these to round out the school in my Keyhole cichlid tank...
So I broke out a bottle of ICH-Attack and dosed at maximum (5X normal dosage), on appox the third day a noticable change in the number of ICH spots was observed, on approx the fifth day it was just about obliterated.

I maintained heat & ICH-Attack for two weeks after the last sign of ICH.

My standard quarantine preventative treatments now includes ICH-Attack.
I'll not risk a latent infestation hiding in the gills and being missed.

Never another sign of ICH, ICH can be completely wiped from any fish/tank with proper treatment.
ICH is NOT always present in fish/aquariums.

guppy
11-02-2007, 12:54 PM
ich treatment for corys? cant salt..just heat? should i get meds or is heat enough? also i have a large abino apple snail, can it get ich...should i move it from the tank? can snail tolerate the heat? sorry for the million questions...new to this tank addiction.thank you

Snails can't get ich (niether can shrimp) but they can act as a carrier for the encysted stage. This is not really a problem. While I do not know if the snail can deal with the heat you don't need to treat the snail, just remove it to a small bowl or tank and keep it at standard temp. for about two weeks. this will allow any encysted ich parasite to hatch, releasing the motile stage. The motile stage must find a fish host within two days or it dies. 2 weeks allows time enough for all the cysts to hatch and enough time for all the motile stage parasites to die. Then you can safely return it to the main tank.

NJ2toU
11-03-2007, 11:05 PM
Hi there!

Brand new here. :-) I was googling Ich Attack to see if anyone has used it with success and it brought me right here. :-) Well, not right here, but after a page or two I found you.

I have two bettas living quite happily, each in their own planted tank, one a 6 gallon Eclipse and the other a 5 gallon Aqua-tech, which is Walmart's less expensive version of the same thing (which you all may know already).

My boys are doing absolutely fine, but for the longest time I've been dying to get some otocinclus, first because they're so cute and nonaggresive, but also to take care of the algae in D'azzi's tank. Actually, the algae isn't bad at all, there is some but I actually kinda like it - it give the tank a more natural look.

So ok - I just wanted some oto's! LOL!

Anyway... after much research about them, I knew they really needed an established tank, but that like all new fish, I had to QT them. I got a very small tank with a filter, set up algae from my tank that was on a small piece of driftwood, some java moss that had it, some algae from my brother's algae encrusted guppy tank (I feel so bad for that lone guppy - he's been through hell...) and algae covered gravel. I also put in some of the veggies that they are supposed to like as well.

It seemed that they were doing fine, I was doing daily water changes, as the tank is so small (1 gallon) and was about ready to put them in their real home when lo and behold - the dreaded ich spots!!!

Yesterday I started treating them with salt and one dose of QuICK Cure so far, but I'm not sure that oto's are good with salt or the QuICK Cure. Right now I'm only using half the recommended dosage from the salt box - 1/4 rounded teaspoon instead of 1/2. I'm also having a hard time raising the temp of the tank, since it's so small. The junior heater I found says no smaller than 2 gallons. :-(

Ok, so now that I've told you all of this, I got a bottle of Ich Attack this afternoon, but wanted to see if anyone found that it worked. Oto's are sensitive and I wanted to make sure it wouldn't bother them.

Advice anyone?

thanks!

ChileRelleno
11-04-2007, 1:33 AM
QuickCure and such meds... Nothing does well with'em, they are all toxic/carcinogenic chemicals for the most part.
Further, I've yet to see a standard/common ICH med with a dosing schedule that makes sense for breaking the ICH lifecycle.

No salt on Otos.
Slowly raise the temp to minimum 87'-88'F (max 90'-91'f)(No more than 2'F every 12hrs.), add double to max dose of ICH-Attack.

Carny_4_Life
11-06-2007, 1:41 AM
will blood parrots be ok at such high temps?
also i add salt with every water change is that gonna affect the treatment i usualy add 2 tespoons per 10 gallons.
and i also have 3 black molies in the tank.
it's being moved tomorrow into my room should i just do like a 50 percent water change and lower the water level?last time my tank had ick i lost all my fish
that's been a month ago i tore down the tank and scrubbed it clean and scaled the rocks in my bathroom tub.
i'm going tomorrow to get a heater our house is usually 75 degrees so i never get heaters it's like 72 in the sumer and 75+ in the winter but i'm gonna have to get a heater for this one
the blood parrot is the only one that's showing signs of ick.i added a weak dose of Melafix 2 cap fulls the tank is 55 gallons so i didn't want to add to much
i also added about 5 tablespoons full of Aquarium Salt
anything else i should do?

ChileRelleno
11-06-2007, 2:11 PM
BPs and Mollies can easily handle 88'F+ and they can both handle the salt.

NJ2toU
11-12-2007, 11:07 PM
Just wanted to report that my otos are doing great. I've double dosed them Ich Attack (morning and night) for a week and the ich spots are gone! They seem no worse for the wear and in fact seem a LOT happier.

The spots seemed to be gone after about five days, but it was hard to tell for sure with them moving about a lot and all the algae in their tank. I moved them into my brother's guppy tank that was totally encrusted in algae. They didn't seem to be eating any of the food I put in their original tank. Zucchini, lettuce, seaweed, algae wafers, or even the algae growing on the wood and java moss. And the spots were getting worse by the day, so desperate times call for desperate measures...

I moved the guppy into another tank, put the otos in the algae tank and started dosing. The next morning I was ecstatic to see lovey green poop all over the bottom of the tank! LOL! First good sign!

It seems before I knew it, the spots were gone. I'm gonna dose for another week, just to make sure every last bit of it is dead and GONE. :)

So here's another happy, satisified customer! And in case you have any doubts, YES I highly recommend Ich Attack! LOL!

:D

Zero46
12-17-2007, 4:36 AM
Just noticed I have ich in my 60 and without even thinking to look on here I added some quICK cure. I have:

2 Malawi Cichlids
1 Small JD
1 Flash Pleco
1 Sultan Pleco
1 Royal Pleco
and a basket of fry from the Cichlids.

The Tank is at about 79F right now and I bumped the heater up slightly. Do you think I should keep at it with the quICK cure or what? I'm concerned about the fry as they are my first batch and I'd be quite sad if I lose them. I'm not sure if the fish can take the extreme temp raise, especially the fry(if the quICK cure doesn't kill them first). Any input would be helpful. Thanks.

Tongue33
12-17-2007, 5:00 AM
The ich will decimate the fry long before Quick cure will... I would stick with what you've started.

Extreme raise of temp.. I doubt you did that successfully..

What size is your heater, and how fast did it heat up, and what is the new temp??

Zero46
12-17-2007, 5:09 AM
I didn't mean extreme as in all at once, probably the wrong word to use. I only bumped the heater up a little bit like Guppy said to do. What I meant was I wasn't sure if my fish could take the temps being up around 88F.

Tongue33
12-17-2007, 6:10 AM
Check..

I believe that you can confidently blame ich if you lose any of the fry.. Fyr are more fragile than older fish..

82-86 would have been fine if it eases your fears..

82 is suppose to be non liveable for ich..

The main reason for raising temp is to speed up the life cycle, your salt or meds handle the rest when the cih hatches.. It will usually look much worse before getting any better... Though With quick cure I haven't noticed that part..

With salt I have..

Zero46
12-17-2007, 6:17 AM
I figured I would probably lose the fry, oh well, I'm sure they'll spawn again. One of my main concerns is the Royal because it isn't mine. Anyways, thanks for your help.

wetfish
01-10-2008, 12:24 AM
Do you think this molly has ich? What worries me is that I've noticed weird pooping with the mollies. It is light in color and tends to stick to them(particularly the one in the pic) for lond periods of time. I don't think the poop is a worm because I saw one come out and the danios immediatly broke it into pieces. He is in the tank with a few other mollies and zebra danios. They are in about 65 gallons of water. The mollies and danios are being used to cycle the tank(I didn't think mollies were a good choice to cycle, but my dad wanted them after the cycling).

How easily does ich transer? Before I realized this might be ich I had messed with another aquarium at the same time as this one. Doing things like moving gravel to the cycling tank. I don't think the fish in the other aquarium(a 20 gal) have shown any signs of ich. Should i do something as a preventative?

I started the heat and salt(2 teaspoons per gal) treatment yesterday. I'm gradually raising the water temp to 88(maybe 86). The rest of the salt is going to be added gradually before I go to bed.

wetfish
01-10-2008, 12:30 AM
The water temp is being raised 2 or 3 degrees per day. Most people say 1 to 2, but my heater seems to go by 3's(at least what is shown on the dial.

wetfish
01-10-2008, 12:33 AM
sorry about the multiple postings(can't edit). I've only had the mollies for about 10 days and the other aquarium would have been potentially exposed sometime during that time frame.

scubasteve06
01-25-2008, 11:06 PM
Well in my new tank almost freshly cycled one of the new inhabitants decided to bring some ich in. Started the slow temperature rise from 79-80 to 84-85 and added 4 teaspoons of aqaurium salt per gallon. I have been medicating for 2 days already do think this will help any in speeding the ich's life cycle? As of today have quit medicating the tank, just raising the heat and adding salt. How many times do I add the salt besides from what I put in earlier? Hopefully in 10 days my tank will be rid of ich!!!:irked::irked::irked::swear::swear::swear::m ad::mad::mad:

guppy
01-26-2008, 4:31 PM
Once you have added the reccomended ammount of salt stop adding anymore unless you do a water change, the salt level will not go down until you do. If you do a water change only replace the salt that is removed with the water.

guppy
01-26-2008, 4:37 PM
Do you think this molly has ich? What worries me is that I've noticed weird pooping with the mollies. It is light in color and tends to stick to them(particularly the one in the pic) for lond periods of time. I don't think the poop is a worm because I saw one come out and the danios immediatly broke it into pieces. He is in the tank with a few other mollies and zebra danios. They are in about 65 gallons of water. The mollies and danios are being used to cycle the tank(I didn't think mollies were a good choice to cycle, but my dad wanted them after the cycling).

How easily does ich transer? Before I realized this might be ich I had messed with another aquarium at the same time as this one. Doing things like moving gravel to the cycling tank. I don't think the fish in the other aquarium(a 20 gal) have shown any signs of ich. Should i do something as a preventative?

I started the heat and salt(2 teaspoons per gal) treatment yesterday. I'm gradually raising the water temp to 88(maybe 86). The rest of the salt is going to be added gradually before I go to bed.

The spots could quite easily be ich, the salt and heat treatment won't hurt mollies even if it is not. They actually like a slightly brackish environment.
The whitish poop is probably a protozoal infection like hexamita, it is very common. In most cases this is a long term sublethal infection. To treat it use metronidazole, best added to food. There are several sources and brands available. Gel-tech make a good food additive for this.

scubasteve06
01-26-2008, 6:11 PM
I added salt per what you said guppy, raised the heat from 79-80 slowly 36 hours later its at 87-88. As to what I said about using the meds for the past 4 days and the heat being at 80 the time the meds were applied, speed the ich's life cycle up any, little, or even at all? thanks

scubasteve06
01-27-2008, 9:54 PM
Been 5 days on salt/heat/ and 2 days of meds and a big flake of ich on my synodontis is looking like its hanging on for dear life as its about to fall of. So I guess I still have about 7-8 more days of treatment to make sure to rid it all for good. THANKS GUPPY! Your a lifesaver!

CHOX
01-31-2008, 7:49 PM
This thread is great. I just noticed some small white dots on my Electric Blue, which look like salt, thats the best comparison I can think of. So I raised the temp up. I noticed that him and my Acei had itched themselves on the gravel a couple of times.

1commander
02-02-2008, 7:07 PM
I've got an american eel and wanted to know a few things. Can someone help me out here?

First, can American Eel's GET Ick?
Secondly, can they withstand this treatment? (temp, salt?)
I have seen some white dots floating around my tank and suspect that ick might be present, although there are very few dots on the eel itself.

BichirAddict
02-03-2008, 8:41 PM
Guppy this sticky has my ropefish fight back with great success thanks.
I started this method about 5 hours ago and the ick is already disappering.
I am so glad I came to MFK

boledle
02-03-2008, 11:24 PM
Heres another Ick question for this thread...
I just had a total wipeout of my 5gallon tank because of Ick. :swear:

Should I start the entire tank over and cycle it again OR will the Ick die off with no fish in the tank? :eek:
) :)

the parasites that cause ick need a fish host. when you're treating ick you're actually treating the tank, not the fish. the eggs hatch at the bottom of the tank and then they swim around looking for fish hosts. if they don't find any they die. so not having fish in the tank for 14 or more days should kill them all off.

CHOX
02-05-2008, 12:48 AM
I thought my problem was solved so I turned down the temperature after a day, bad idea. My two fish, Electric Blue is staying at the top of the tank, occasionally shaking its the back end of its body, and Acei are itching himself against the gravel. I turned the temperature back up the 85. That will be fine for African Cichlids right?

skyjennifer
02-21-2008, 3:48 PM
Hi Guppy

Thank you for posting what you have learned about fish, i am going to try what you say works for ick after losing $260.00 of fish. I am hoping it works.

andiefusco
02-22-2008, 2:57 AM
i had an ick situation isolated to just one silver dollar in my 55 gal, i gave him a salt water bath consisting of 1 tablespoon & 1 teaspoon of aquarium salt per water for about half an hour in my hospital tank. after thirty minutes in this bath his symptoms seemed to clear up, and he assumed normal behavior in the large tank. hope my suggestion will help. I was also i religious user of the Rid-Ick product sold at many pet store chains for the prevention of spreading the disease to other organisms in my tank! follow instructions on the package to prevent your other friends from catching the virus among contact.

PsycoCicccclds
02-25-2008, 8:33 AM
hey there! New member,just tryn to post somthing! Just got a new and 1st parrotfish. THey said they were all bloodyparrots but i'm not sure of him, he's like a real light turquise(NEVER seen tht color before.) And of course, he's got ich!! Heard about the salt,jst never tried b4. Always bought smthng. But I just hope that high temp. will b ok for ALL my fish!!! silver dollar, 6 african cics,plec, and of course the parrot. Everyones pickin on him and i kinda figured, but I thought he'd protect himself a lil, better. It's been like 4 days and i jst spottd the ick today. THis SUCKS!!! I can't tell u how many times i've bought "ICK-AWAY"!!!!!!! aNY advise on wht he really is and if the temp. is OK???

PsycoCicccclds
02-25-2008, 8:44 AM
POSTIN AGAIN

PsycoCicccclds
02-25-2008, 8:44 AM
AGAIN

PsycoCicccclds
02-25-2008, 8:45 AM
AND AGAIN SORRY GUYS JUST WNNA B A 'REAL' MEMBER SO I CAN LEARN MORE

PsycoCicccclds
02-25-2008, 8:47 AM
LAST TIME....PROMISE :)

PsycoCicccclds
02-25-2008, 12:17 PM
hey there! New member,just tryn to post somthing! Just got a new and 1st parrotfish. THey said they were all bloodyparrots but i'm not sure of him, he's like a real light turquise(NEVER seen tht color before.) And of course, he's got ich!! Heard about the salt,jst never tried b4. Always bought smthng. But I just hope that high temp. will b ok for ALL my fish!!! silver dollar, 6 african cics,plec, and of course the parrot. Everyones pickin on him and i kinda figured, but I thought he'd protect himself a lil, better. It's been like 4 days and i jst spottd the ick today. THis SUCKS!!! I can't tell u how many times i've bought "ICK-AWAY"!!!!!!! aNY advise on wht he really is:confused: and if the temp. is OK???*****

guppy
02-26-2008, 2:36 PM
Okay, now stop trying for post count, just find threads that interest you and post legitamate answers, comments, or questions. Nor as to ich on a blood parrot, they will tolerate the Ich-Away as will the other fish you listed including the plec, just follow the directions on the bottle.

Waterthoughts
03-01-2008, 1:06 PM
thanks you guys for all the info. i read this thread till about page 12, then stopped cus everyone was kinda repeating themselfs. i guess the ones who know the info have to keep coming back and saying the same stuff cus other people keep asking questions with out reading the previous posts. i feel bad for the experts who have to keep posting replies. but thank you all for posting here. my fish recently got ich and i've started treatment. two have died though, which is a very bummer, and one has disappeared. (might be in a decoration but he wont come out) so idk. im keeping the heat up, and have added salt. even did a does of "ick out sensitive" but think i wont add more of that, and just stick with the heat and salt.
once again: thank you for the info.
this site has proven to be a great help.



-atarah

puntoturbo
03-17-2008, 3:07 PM
I have a problem with white spot on one of my tinfoil barbs that just wont go away!I have had the temp turned up gradually to 89f and over for over two weeks now!My tank is heavily filtered with plenty of oxygen,the fish in the tank dont seem to mind the high temps so far!But the white spot on the single tinfoil wont go away!i dont know what else to do!No other fish are showing any sighns.I dont want to use medication not even at half dose because i have a BEAUTIFUL large CLOWN KNIFE that would proberly get effected by the medication.I put salt in the tank at 1table spoon per 5 gallons (LOW DOSE)but he reacted badly to it.So im at loss! Any HELP would be GREATLY appreciated.

puntoturbo
03-17-2008, 3:31 PM
I was thinking about buying the Vecton v2 600 steriliser??do you think this would cure my problem??Thanks!

ChileRelleno
03-17-2008, 3:36 PM
Heat alone will kill most ICH infestations, there are some strains however that are resistant to temps as high as 90'f+.
I have used Kordon's 'ICH-Attack'* against heat resistant ICH with very good results.
I used a maximum dosage in conjunction with high heat (91'f), and the resistant ICH was gone in a week.

I highly recommend this product.
I've used it successfully with/without heat/salt, and I use it as a proactive treatment as part of my standard quarantine procedures.


Remember to continue treatment for at least two weeks after the last visible sign of infestation.

*ICH-Attack is a 100% natural remedy that has proven anti-protozoal and anti-fungal properties.
Active ingredient is Naphtoquinone which is not known to be carcinogenic/toxic as many standard meds are.
Manufactured by Kordon, available at various retailers.

puntoturbo
03-17-2008, 3:45 PM
Do you know if they they sell ICH-Attack in the UK?? it has to be a natural remedy im looking for!witch it is??Ive also been looking at another natural remedy for white spot which is called KUSURI PARAZORYNE! Do you know anything about this product??
Cheers!

ChileRelleno
03-17-2008, 4:57 PM
I was thinking about buying the Vecton v2 600 steriliser??do you think this would cure my problem??Thanks!
IF... If the flowrate running thru it is providing the proper dwell time, if the water is prefiltered, if the sleeve is kept clean and if the turnover is adequate, then it will very likely kill any Tomonts/Thermonts that are picked up.
But it isn't likely to kill 100% of a established infestation.

A damned good prophylatic, but it is by no means a stand alone cure.
Just one more weapon in the fight, like thorough vacuuming/water changes to remove Tomonts/Thermonts.

I would use a combination of treatments for at least two weeks after the last visible sign of infestation.
I would utilize heat (min 86'f - max 92'f), Kordon's 'ICH-Attack' (max dosage) and if the species will tolerate it, salt (up to 2-3 ppt or 1.002-1.003 specific gravity).
Any one of these alone is capable of killing the ICH protozoa, together they are like tactical nukes.

The cure is 100% eradication and subsequent care to not reintroduce the pest.

puntoturbo
03-17-2008, 4:57 PM
Just googled it and i have found a place that sells ICH- Attack in the uk! Cant wait to get rid of this white spot once and for all! Thanks for your help!

ChileRelleno
03-17-2008, 5:03 PM
Do you know if they they sell ICH-Attack in the UK?? it has to be a natural remedy im looking for!witch it is??Ive also been looking at another natural remedy for white spot which is called KUSURI PARAZORYNE! Do you know anything about this product??
Cheers!
I'm not familiar with that product, but I would recommend checking the active ingredients and seeing if it is the same as Kordon's ICH-Attack' as posted above. If it is, then I'd use it.

ChileRelleno
03-17-2008, 5:08 PM
Just googled it and i have found a place that sells ICH- Attack in the uk! Cant wait to get rid of this white spot once and for all! Thanks for your help!My pleasure ;)

CoryWM
04-03-2008, 11:17 PM
My clown loaches have ich... and i'm really sad. They've had it for a week I believe. I caught it the first day I think, I look at my fish when I go to bed, and wake up... So I wake up, and the smallest clown loach has ich... I get home from work, and the 3 small clown loaches have ich... I turn up the temp, and dose with some ich meds at half strength.. It was for sensitive fish. Few days later, I do a tank rescape, 100% water change/from gravel to sand change. and redose with Ich-X this time at full strength. Yesterday. I started adding salt, as the 3 clowns still have ich. I've added roughly two cups of salt now. Still wont register on the hydrometer yet. It's a 65g tank. The temp in the tank is somewhere between 93 and 97.... Both numbers are sorta light up on that hydrometer. All my fish are still alive, and eating etc... But do I need to just wait longer, or bump up the salt, and go out and find the ICH-Attack? I really want to save these guys :) Obviously my favorite fish!

USMCtanker
04-03-2008, 11:36 PM
i just got ride of an out break i had, just dont stress them out much at all, that good there still eating, as the ich gotten worse, if so if it dosnt die down in next cpl days then worrie, it get worse b4 better when u turn up heat and add the salt, i did the salt and temp thing that they posted on here, worked great, took almost 2 weeks to be fully gone but with ur temp that hi it should die down soon. usually it get worse right b4 they start going away, just dont forget once u dont see any more keep temp up and salt for at least another week to kill the other stages of ich that might be in the gravel

CoryWM
04-03-2008, 11:38 PM
Yeah I plan too. I was wondering, if I could turn it down to like 90-92 degrees once it's off the loaches...

USMCtanker
04-03-2008, 11:39 PM
oh i also did a 10 to 20% water chage every other day or so, just do a nice and easy water change dont chage much in tank so u dont add extra stress, i have heard diff things about doing more water chages so i did it about every 2 3 days at 10 to 20 so that way the tank would still have the salt and temp levels that can help kill the ich

USMCtanker
04-03-2008, 11:40 PM
i would, u have ur temp very high, i mean thats fine but for to long i would think it might hurt the fish, i got ride of mine and only got up to 89. i would lower it down as soona s u see the ich to go away, just dont lower to much

CoryWM
04-03-2008, 11:41 PM
Yeah, what salt ratio did you use? 2 teaspoons per gallon?

USMCtanker
04-03-2008, 11:57 PM
yep i also, if i where u got to petsmart or pewtoc and get areader to see how much salt u have in there, they look like the floating temp readers but longer, i got mine and kept it close to .2 like others in the thread said was a good level.

Waterthoughts
04-04-2008, 3:41 PM
im treating my tank right now. i hope this works.....
just added the salt, and my tem is about 90F


the next time i go to the pet store im going to get one of those readers for my salt that you guys are talkin about....


+-----------questions---------------+
till then does anyone have any advice about how to go aboutkeeping the right amount of salt in the tank?
should i just do the calculations every time i change some water, and continue to add 2 teaspoons per gal?
will that keep the salt up at around .2?


please let me know !
thanks!

Speezio
04-09-2008, 9:13 PM
will the ich treatment kill my live plants?

piggy67
04-09-2008, 10:06 PM
awsome glad its a sticky now seems like this question comes up every day just a idea but maybe you could do one for worms too seems like thats just as common some days i just get tired of answering the same question.
Just wanted to thank you for telling the same story over and over.it's people like you that people like me need for info.Your 1 of the reasons i joind this site.please give your self a pat on the back because you and alot of other people on tis site.help idiots LIKE ME, KEEP BEAUTIFUL TANK,S AND FISH.MFKERS RULE.......:headbang2:headbang2:headbang2:headbang 2:headbang2AGAIN THANK YOU!!!!!!!

jbonez
04-30-2008, 6:12 PM
is keeping a tank of oscars good with no gravel?

Robert_Lu999
06-09-2008, 8:23 AM
It is said that once the ICH hatches and drops to the tank floor, it will need to grab onto a fish to survive. So does that mean I need to remove the fishes into a seperate tank? Or am I able to just leave the fish in the tank with the high temperature and treatment and it will die itself?

Thank you for your assistance

ChileRelleno
06-09-2008, 4:58 PM
Do Not Remove the Fish to Another Tank...
You'll just be spreading the parasite to another tank/fish.
You must treat the tank and the fish as a whole.
All the ICH is not in the same stage of its life cycle at once, there are generally trophonts, tomonts & thermonts at any given time.
This is why treatment is continued for two weeks after the last visible sign of infestation to account for the other life stages.

I highly recommend a combo of treatments, such as Heat/Salt, Heat/ICH-Attack, or even all three.
I also recommend taking the heat as high as possible, 87' is a minimum to disrupt the life cycle.

Robert_Lu999
06-09-2008, 9:36 PM
Thanks Chile Relleno....

I have done everything you suggested, however instead of salt, I'm using medication because that I didnt read this post until I already brought it. Its on the 3rd day, the white spots on my arowana is looking worst but thats normal from what I read.

I will continue the process for 2 weeks once the white spots are gone as you suggested. Hopefully everything works out well.

Griff1327
06-22-2008, 8:24 PM
Read almost all the way through this sticky. Got a 6" Clown Loach four days ago. Looked extremely healthy but was obviously carrying ick. Have started to raise the temp but I am weary of adding salt due to my 8" Ghost Knife. I know as you all have stated, he can't handle it. I am curious if all of my fish can survive the temp of 88 though.
My fish include:
Bolivian Rams
Columbian Shark
Typical Pleco
YoYo Loaches
Leporinus Fascinatus
Bala Sharks
Tinfoil Barbs
Black Skirt Tetras
Mollies
Gouramis
African Leaf Fish

Big List...Big Tank. Will all survive the temp of 88? Would move the BGK but I have a smaller one in my planted tank and they would fight.

ChileRelleno
06-22-2008, 10:04 PM
Read almost all the way through this sticky. Got a 6" Clown Loach four days ago. Looked extremely healthy but was obviously carrying ick. Have started to raise the temp but I am weary of adding salt due to my 8" Ghost Knife. I know as you all have stated, he can't handle it. I am curious if all of my fish can survive the temp of 88 though.
My fish include:
Bolivian Rams
Columbian Shark
Typical Pleco
YoYo Loaches
Leporinus Fascinatus
Bala Sharks
Tinfoil Barbs
Black Skirt Tetras
Mollies
Gouramis
African Leaf Fish

Big List...Big Tank. Will all survive the temp of 88? Would move the BGK but I have a smaller one in my planted tank and they would fight.As stated, yes, salt and GK is a bad idea.

I recommend a combined treatment of Heat/ICH-Attack.
And, yes, all your listed species should tolerate the 88'F temp, just remember to aerate well to account for depleted O2.

I have to ask...
Why on God's green earth would you deliberately put a ICH infested fish into a supposedly healthy community tank :screwy:
And, you do know that CLs are a shoaling species, and will do much better in a 5+ shoal, and that althought they grow very slowly they attain up to a 12"+.
Same go for more than a few of your other listed species.

Griff1327
06-23-2008, 8:53 PM
I didn't intentionally put ick in the tank. The way I typed it made it sound like I did. I was saying that he looked healthy...but obviously wasnt. I know that they are a shoaling species and have six other. He is just the largest. It is a 300 g that came with my house when I bought it. Guess the guy just didnt want to break it down to move it.

Casper2000
07-06-2008, 6:03 PM
ok quick question. the salt treatment, is that an everyday thing?

steve0199us
09-02-2008, 8:18 AM
I just came down with ich in my 55gal tank, I'm going to treat with salt and raise the temp.... BUT, what do I do with my plants? I know salt is bad and maybe the high temp....

They are all common plant that can be found in any pet store, nothing exotic...

steve0199us
09-02-2008, 10:46 AM
.

steve0199us
09-02-2008, 2:12 PM
Anyone available to answer?

I've done a ton of reading and there seems to be plenty of opinions... Should I just move all the plants into a buckets for the next 3-4 days and treat the tank with salt and high temp?!?

Lupin
09-03-2008, 12:31 AM
I just came down with ich in my 55gal tank, I'm going to treat with salt and raise the temp.... BUT, what do I do with my plants? I know salt is bad and maybe the high temp....

They are all common plant that can be found in any pet store, nothing exotic...


Anyone available to answer?

I've done a ton of reading and there seems to be plenty of opinions... Should I just move all the plants into a buckets for the next 3-4 days and treat the tank with salt and high temp?!?
Well, plants will usually wither when salt is added although they will begin to regrow after the treatment course. If you wish to separate the plants, you may do so. Ich cannot survive without hosts for a long time so separating the plants is also a nice idea until your treatment course which usually takes place up to 14 days, is over.

Treat your tank with table salt and temperature up to 86 degrees Fahrenheit.

ctoychik
09-15-2008, 10:37 AM
May i suggest that the owner's of the fish with ich post pictures as well? It is very interesting and will be a good reference to other owners in the future. Especially, if most of the aquarium species are covered for cross reference


PS: i have seen recently seen a well-dcoumented thread about fin rot as well as the progress and improvements. Very informative.

ECarbonel
09-15-2008, 12:03 PM
Well, plants will usually wither when salt is added although they will begin to regrow after the treatment course. If you wish to separate the plants, you may do so. Ich cannot survive without hosts for a long time so separating the plants is also a nice idea until your treatment course which usually takes place up to 14 days, is over.

Treat your tank with table salt and temperature up to 86 degrees Fahrenheit.
WAIT!!! what are u talking about!?!?!? table salt??? don't ever use table salt in ur fish tank use aquarium salt!!!

kennye86
10-24-2008, 5:08 AM
I have

2x Festae
6x Geophagus Brasilnesis
3xBN Plecs

Will they survive this treatment?

davina
10-28-2008, 2:58 AM
my stripped raphael got ich for 3 days now.
in other forum, it says that adding salt to catfish are not recommended.
is that true?

kiokie72006
10-30-2008, 8:47 PM
I am writing this because it is something that comes up so often.
Ich is a protozoal infection that afflicts fish and can rapidly kill them, most often by damaging gill tissue.
The organism goes through a life cycle of;
a small white spot feeding on your fish,
which drops off to the floor of your tank and encysts,
while encysted it divides into up to 2000 new mobile organisms,
the cyst ruptures, releasing the mobile organisms which seek out a host.
Only the mobile stage is vulnerable to treatment by anything that will not also kill your fish.

Here is an old fashioned but very effective method for treatment.
It can be used for most fish but morymids, corys, and some pims are sensitive to salt. Because the organism infest the tank, the whole tank should be treated.

Raise the temp of your tank to at least 85-86 degrees F.
Add aquarium salt (dissolved in water) at a ratio of 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon of water in your tank.
Now wait, while waiting it does not hurt to add a powerhead or airstone to increase the O2 level.
Over the first couple days your fish will look worse but then they will clear up. about the sixth day they will look clear but because some ecystments have not yet hatched keep the treatment up for the full 10 days.
If you are not able to raise the temperature you need to extend the treatment, at 85 the ich's life cycle is quick but at 72 it can take weeks, below 70F treat for 6 weeks.

There are medicines you can use but many fish are sensitive to them, you can also try just heat at 90-91 degrees F but some fish can't take that heat and some strains of ich can survive it.
The salt and heat method is one I have used several times with sucess.
is adding the salt a one time thing? Does the one treatment last the full 10 days? and do you end the treatment by just doing water changes untill the salt test comes back to the norm?

Lupin
10-30-2008, 8:51 PM
is adding the salt a one time thing? Does the one treatment last the full 10 days? and do you end the treatment by just doing water changes untill the salt test comes back to the norm?
If you are doing water changes during treatment course, then it is not a one-time thing. You have to replace the salt removed by water changes by dosing it to the amount of water you have replaced. Treatment course is under your control. We recommend 10 days minimum although 14 is better just to be sure ich is completely destroyed. Series of water changes will eventually diminish the salt.

kiokie72006
11-01-2008, 2:03 PM
If you are doing water changes during treatment course, then it is not a one-time thing. You have to replace the salt removed by water changes by dosing it to the amount of water you have replaced. Treatment course is under your control. We recommend 10 days minimum although 14 is better just to be sure ich is completely destroyed. Series of water changes will eventually diminish the salt.
thanx:)

lighthouse39183
11-19-2008, 10:08 AM
Ok, so I have read through this entire thread and I now have a few questions. I bought a green severum and placed him in my new 125g tank with my oscar, african cichlid, tiger barbs, pictus catfish, bumblebee cichlids, bala sharks, and pleco. All the fish are small right now. The green severum was looking beautiful until this morning when I got home from work. He developed something all over his body just over night! It looks like ich but I really dont know for sure. I have now quarantined him to a 10g tank and used a med to treat him. I am also raising the temp on both tanks. I keep my 125g at 78. I'm slowly raising the temp now. Do u think this is ich? It looks like crystals covering the severum's entire body. Any suggestions?

ssalyers
11-19-2008, 12:07 PM
I had the same thing happen to me with some Black Belts. overnight small white dots. Started treatment for Ick yesterday. I put aquarium salt in and raised the temp to 88 and in a 180g that seems to taking forever.

ssalyers
11-19-2008, 12:10 PM
By the way I read in another thread you can use table salt. I was wondering can you use the Morton Water Softener Salt. Its cheap 4 bucka a bag at Lowes.

Lupin seems to be the man to anwser this quetion.

lighthouse39183
11-19-2008, 12:55 PM
I went and bought some aquarium salt and I'm going to do a water change before I add the salt. I'm concerned for the pictus catfish. I think I remember someone on this thread mentioning that they are less tolerant of salt. Couldnt find any ich-attack. I would have rather used that with the heat.

lighthouse39183
11-19-2008, 3:34 PM
I think the 3rd post in this thread states do not use water softener salt. Guess you could pm the person who posted that and try to get an answer to that one.

lighthouse39183
11-19-2008, 5:14 PM
I cant get the tank to heat up. I have 3 heaters in it and it still isnt above 80. I added 1 cup of aquarium salt (disolved in water). I know that I should have added more but I'm concerned that I might add too much too fast or kill my pictus cat because of the salt altogether.

TwistedPenguin
11-19-2008, 5:29 PM
By the way I read in another thread you can use table salt. I was wondering can you use the Morton Water Softener Salt. Its cheap 4 bucka a bag at Lowes.
Lupin seems to be the man to anwser this quetion.

I wouldn't. Water softener salt isn't the same thing, there's actually 3 different kinds. Just go to WalMart and get the Pickling Salt in a green box. It's $1.25/box and dosed at 2 TBS/5 gal will treat a 250 g tank (don't ask me how I know).

ChileRelleno
11-19-2008, 9:01 PM
Ok, so I have read through this entire thread and I now have a few questions. I bought a green severum and placed him in my new 125g tank with my oscar, african cichlid, tiger barbs, pictus catfish, bumblebee cichlids, bala sharks, and pleco. All the fish are small right now. The green severum was looking beautiful until this morning when I got home from work. He developed something all over his body just over night! It looks like ich but I really dont know for sure. I have now quarantined him to a 10g tank and used a med to treat him. I am also raising the temp on both tanks. I keep my 125g at 78. I'm slowly raising the temp now. Do u think this is ich? It looks like crystals covering the severum's entire body. Any suggestions?Soundsd like ICH to me, "crystals", or salt, sugar, white sand... ICH.

Now you have two tanks to treat...:nilly:
Since he was in the 125, it is now for a practical consideration infested with whatever the Sev has.

Q U A R A N T I N E! Learn it, live it & love it.

My treatment has been the same for quite some time now.
Temp to at least 88'F.
***90'F won't hurt any of those fish is it is brought up slowly and heavy aeration/surface agitation is used to counter lowered 02 levels.

Since you have the cat/pleco, skip the salt, or half dose and observe for stress.

Kordons 'ICH-Attack', max dosage.

Continue temp/salt/med for at least two weeks after last sign of infestation.

lighthouse39183
11-19-2008, 9:28 PM
Thank you. I will have to make a trip to Jackson and see if I can find the Ich-Attack. Couldn't find it in town.

bl00
11-21-2008, 9:26 AM
I'd just like to share my experience treating with the heat only method.
I didn't want to remove the plants from my wc heros, and stress them more by taking away cover and rearranging the tank. I also have seen a disturbing variation in the amount of salt recommended by various sources. Not that I don't trust Lupin's numbers or experiences specifically, but from an empirical point of view, I had fears of improper execution or other error on my part.

I chose to implement the strictly extreme heat method, which worked wonders. The heat was increased gradually (over the course of about 1.5 days) to 90 degrees. It seemed to cause no significant distress on the fish, they did seem more energetic though. I added an extra airstone to ensure adequate aeration. Although the symptoms disappeared after about 3 days, the temperature was kept at an even 90 degrees for 10 days, to ensure that the ich parasites were completely clear from the tank. I then lowered the temp back down to 80 over the course of 3-4 days.
I would highly recommend this method as it has the least potential to go wrong and requires the modfication on the most minimal amout of parameters.

Cichlaholics Anonymous
11-21-2008, 12:23 PM
that sound effective, the only problem would be making sure the heat stays at the necessary level, otherwise you speed up the ich without destroying it

duanes
11-21-2008, 3:35 PM
You can fool ich into hatching out in a fishless tank, where, because the tomites don't find a host, will die. Just add some water from a tank with fish into the fishless tank. Either pheromones or waste products (don't know for sure which) from the fish trigger the ich cysts into "hatching" into a hostless enviroment.
It is theorized that some cysts may lay dorment for months, maybe years, though, and may survive in dust.
At the end of last summer the fish in my pond were wiped out because of ich.
This spring, before adding fish, whenever I did a water change in the tanks indoors, I would add a few gallons to the pond.(this also aided in cycling the pond)
No problems at all this summer when fish were added @ month later.

ChileRelleno
11-21-2008, 4:44 PM
You can fool ich into hatching out in a fishless tank, where, because the tomites don't find a host, will die. Just add some water from a tank with fish into the fishless tank. Either pheromones or waste products (don't know for sure which) from the fish trigger the ich cysts into "hatching" into a hostless enviroment.
It is theorized that some cysts may lay dorment for months, maybe years, though, and may survive in dust.
Utter rubbish, just another fish myth :screwy:
ICH doesn't lay dormant, in a fishless environment it will die out... Period.
In cold water it's life cycle can take a extended period to complete, just as warm water speeds it up.
ICH can manifest as a 'Latent' infection, which is oft mistaken as dormancy.

bl00
11-22-2008, 6:08 AM
that sound effective, the only problem would be making sure the heat stays at the necessary level, otherwise you speed up the ich without destroying it

That, along with stability, is certainly a good excuse to buy a nice heater that's a size larger than what your gallonage would require ;)
(That is, if you aren't planning on just adding an extra heater that you have lying around.)

ffrosti
01-19-2009, 3:27 PM
I just wanted to say that I successfully treated ich on piuctus catfish and a black ghost knifefish using salt and heat. I slowly over 72 hours upped my tank temp from 78 to 86 and addded salt to a final concentration of 1.5 tsp/gallon. spots have been gone for a week now and eveyone appears happy. swimming and eating as normal. I will now start to bring the tank back to normal.

They were new purchases who came in with ich. Thank God I had to forsight to put them in the quarentine tank first.

Before I treated I was frantically combing the internet as to how to treat my new "scaless" fish. But got a lot of mixed advice including really bad advice. so for the record salt and high temps seem ok for the knifefish. i strongly recommend. I also had a dwarf frog in there that didn't seem to mind the change either.

Oose
11-22-2009, 9:36 PM
I'm sure this subject is beaten to death for some of you, but I wanted to bounce my treatment off of you. So here goes... tank is 55gal, 3inch bristlenose, 4inch electric blue jack dempsey and 2inch female jack dempsey (temp tank until my 125 gal cycles). Amonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0 and Nitrate somewhere around 5, ph 7.8. Anyways, somewhere while adding fish the electric blue has gotten ich. Still doing great, eating 1 time a day and swimming around/hiding like normal.

So here is the treatment I did after reading guppys post. First I did a 35%-40% water change. Dechlorinated the new water and added salt per 2tsp for every gallon of the tank and jacked the temp up to 86-88 depending on which thermometer I read haha( I have an airstone going full blast too).

Anything else I should do? Should I do anymore water changes while treating or just let the water in there ride during treatment? How long will it take to get rid of it and how many days should I treat after no visable signs on the EBJD? If I do a water change do I have to sterilize the buckets/syphons/nets/etc... or will it eventually die on the equipment over the course of a week or so before the next water change?

Thanx in advance for any responses/help

knobhill
11-23-2009, 2:39 PM
Hi,
I am encountering some ich in my 60g quarantine tank. I have raised the temp to 86* put am not sure about treating with salt.
Inhabitants are:
2 razor musk turtles (1.5")
3 orange lazer cory cats
9 red severums ---these are the hosts of the ich
1 L91 Three Beacon Pleco.

I am mostly worried that adding salt will not be good for the corys...anyone know about this particular species' salt tolerance?

Lupin
11-23-2009, 10:34 PM
Stick to 0.1% solution of salt which is equivalent to a teaspoon per gallon. I've used up to 0.2% solution though with my plecos and loaches before with no issues. Be sure to dissolve salt thoroughly before adding to the tank. If you wish to add another 0.1% solution, wait for another 12 hours after adding the first set.

Lupin
11-23-2009, 10:37 PM
Anything else I should do? Should I do anymore water changes while treating or just let the water in there ride during treatment? How long will it take to get rid of it and how many days should I treat after no visable signs on the EBJD? If I do a water change do I have to sterilize the buckets/syphons/nets/etc... or will it eventually die on the equipment over the course of a week or so before the next water change?
Yes, you can do water changes while treatment is ongoing however you need to redose salt per the water volume replaced afterwards to maintain the salinity level required to destroy the surviving ich. Once ich appears to have disappeared, continue salt treatment for another 10 days and maintain salinity level.

Ich cannot survive without hosts for a few days and water but if you're worried, feel free to pour hot water on your equipments. Hot water alone will kill them.

Oose
11-24-2009, 11:15 AM
Thanx Lupin I really appreciate the help

knobhill
11-24-2009, 12:06 PM
Stick to 0.1% solution of salt which is equivalent to a teaspoon per gallon. I've used up to 0.2% solution though with my plecos and loaches before with no issues. Be sure to dissolve salt thoroughly before adding to the tank. If you wish to add another 0.1% solution, wait for another 12 hours after adding the first set.


Thanks, will do.

Nikeo Karu
03-28-2010, 1:23 PM
Hey, I'm new also I join a couple days back, when i was researching how to git rid of ich from my 55 gallon community tank. I've been doing the heat and salt treatment as well as using the Ich Attack all natural medication, I've lost about 3 fish 1 6inch clown loach, and 2 10 inch channel catfish.. I've been doing the treatment for about a week now and the loach is still covered in ich.. So I need to give it its full 3 weeks to see if it works.

I currently have 2 Upside down Catfish, 2 Black Angel fish, 2 royal Plecos and 2 bala sharks.. I also wanted to know if my tank is over loaded with fish. If so i can move some to my 30 gal tank that im going to start up in my basement near the bar.

attackfish21
03-29-2010, 2:40 AM
I was told by a couple of people that the ich doesnt drop off the fish, I was certain it did, and they told me where ever I got that info was stupid and wrong. Now I have read this, and again have my suspicions answered by GUPPY telling the life cycle of the parasite.

I feel a lot better knowing that I was right.... I am right, right?

The ich DOES infact fall of the fish, and that is how the whole tank can become infected... ?

I just need to double check for my sanity!!! Thanks!!

ChileRelleno
03-29-2010, 5:11 AM
I was told by a couple of people that the ich doesnt drop off the fish, I was certain it did, and they told me where ever I got that info was stupid and wrong. Now I have read this, and again have my suspicions answered by GUPPY telling the life cycle of the parasite.

I feel a lot better knowing that I was right.... I am right, right?

The ich DOES infact fall of the fish, and that is how the whole tank can become infected... ?

I just need to double check for my sanity!!! Thanks!!You are for the most part correct.
In Ich's normal life cycle, some does indeed drop off the fish as it goes from Trophont to Tomont stages.

However, please realize that ICH like everything else in the world has it's exceptions, however rare.
There has been cases where ICH has been able to complete its full life cycle under the fishes slimecoat/skin, rendering it for all intents untreatable.

There are also cases where ICH has survived salt as high as five (5) tablespoon per five (5) gallons. (Not sure as to what this dosage equaled when measured in 'ppm' or 'specific gravity'.)
There is one (That I know of.) reported and documented case where ICH survived temps beyond 87'-88'f.
These are rare exceptions, not the norm.

Thankfully there are no known strains which can survive both, heat & salt, combined. Add in a non toxic remedy such as Ich-Attack, and Ich is dead, dead, dead.

killerg305
04-03-2010, 5:05 PM
..

jerzyperson
04-03-2010, 5:19 PM
would this method work with uruguayan f1 fry and catfish, such as syno's, pims, and a tsn? i just spotted the beginning of ich and i don't want it to spread, so i need to stop it fast.

m1ste2tea
04-05-2010, 12:04 AM
quite happy with this salt/heat treatment, had my first victory over ick that my tiger oscar had developed not long ago. I treated him as soon as I saw a spot on his fin. I put him into the hospital tank where it is dark, put at least 1tsp of salt per gallon and slowly increased the temp to 90 in one day. I changed half of the water twice a day and voila! no spots and the oscar is happy as ever.

iravia
06-04-2010, 12:19 PM
I wouldn't. Water softener salt isn't the same thing, there's actually 3 different kinds. Just go to WalMart and get the Pickling Salt in a green box. It's $1.25/box and dosed at 2 TBS/5 gal will treat a 250 g tank (don't ask me how I know).


Can someone explain to me why we can't use water softening? A 40 lbs bag at homedepot costs about 5 bucks and can last you a whole year or more. Up to 99.6 % pure salt. What other .04% of chemicals that are so bad that you can't use this?

Here is a link of the salt at homedepot:

http://www.homedepot.com/Diamond-Crystal/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xh7Z3fk/R-100172669/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

alexmuw
06-04-2010, 1:49 PM
You can use water softener salt for tanks; he doesn't know what he's talking about.

API Aquarium Salt is rock salt, aka 100% Sodium Chloride (NaCl)
Don't believe me? Here's the API MSDS sheet that STATES it's NaCl:
http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/aquarium_salt_122309.pdf

If you still think 0.4% impurities is still too dangerous, you can buy rock salt from the grocery store (which is 100% NaCl).

I just started using Mortons water softener salt, and it's 99.5% NaCl (the small impurities is negligible, it's evaporated sea salt; I haven't heard of anyone who has died from drinking softened water).

Morton's site even states:

/) Which Morton products can be added directly to a koi pond or fresh water?

When salt supplementation is advised, Morton recommends using Morton® White Crystal® Solar Salt or Morton® Canning and Pickling Salt for fish ponds and fresh water aquariums, as these products do not contain additives. Note that it may be advisable to make a solution from the salt before adding it to the pond or aquarium. Please see your fish expert or veterinarian for the proper use of salt in a pond or aquarium.

http://www.mortonsalt.com/faqs/index.html#q8



ANYWAYS, Heat + Salt treatment ForTheWin!!!!

lychan
06-27-2010, 11:54 PM
I was wondering if i do the same treatment for my redtail catfish and my shovelnose catfish? If you could give some suggestions that would be great. White spots just appeared on their entire body even their eyes today out of the blue and they refuse to eat as well.

lychan
06-28-2010, 12:39 AM
Yes my catfish have white spots all over their bodies even all atound their eyes. It just happened all of a sudden. I am not for sure what to do for it. I have raised the temp of my tank to 80 degrees and added 1 teaspoon of aquarium salt per 1 gallon of water. I hope that is okay I am not for sure if that is right. Could you let me know if that was good or bad? Thank You!!!

dee_nice83
08-14-2010, 4:27 PM
New to the forum and also to the hobby. Here is a pic of my Pleco and questioning if this is Ick.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/krazeeden/Fish/DSC_0027.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/krazeeden/Fish/DSC_0029.jpg

Pleco has been in the 29g tank for about 2 weeks and just notice the spots yesterday. So i went ahead and did a 100% w/c right away. Took out all decors and rinsed the gravel thoroughly. Tank is at a constant 82 but i raised it last night to 86. I have a senegalus and a white cloud in the tank but no signs of spots.

awilson0001
10-24-2010, 2:52 PM
so when i measure the salt for ich, what do i use? specific gravity tests dont show %. i just want to be sure im doing it right.

awilson0001
10-24-2010, 5:59 PM
anyone know?

syntaxx
10-25-2010, 9:57 PM
let say the tank already has salt but don't know how many.. how do you count how much salt is in there?

spadoc79
12-05-2010, 5:43 PM
can my lima shovelnose, rtc, albino channel cat, and clown knife handle the salt dosage and heat for treating ich?

iWantKicks
12-05-2010, 6:38 PM
I just treated my 40 breeder for my baby datnoids... as soon as i put the salt treatment in, 3 of my baby pbass swam like crazy for a minute then sank to the bottom and died :nilly: :cry:

petspoiler
01-27-2011, 4:18 PM
does Ich-Attack kill the bio-filtration, like other medications do?

esparonisproud
03-18-2011, 12:35 AM
curremtly doing this for my rtc/tsn. hope it works.

pookie
03-24-2011, 1:14 AM
I dont want to kill my pleco, I have the salt to 0.02% how long should I leave it in? My heater broke and wont heat but its about 70 more like 75..

Any answers would be appreciated!

The fish are doing well, even the bad platy has came back and eats and chases the other fish like he isnt sick..

Lupin
03-24-2011, 8:02 AM
I dont want to kill my pleco, I have the salt to 0.02% how long should I leave it in? My heater broke and wont heat but its about 70 more like 75..

Any answers would be appreciated!

The fish are doing well, even the bad platy has came back and eats and chases the other fish like he isnt sick..
You'll need another 10 days of continuing the treatment after ich disappears. Get a functioning heater so you can avoid prolonging the treatment period.

Lupin
03-24-2011, 8:04 AM
does Ich-Attack kill the bio-filtration, like other medications do?
I can't remember the active ingredients however as most ich meds do contain formalin and malachite green, both products can potentially destroy beneficial bacteria.

Carefree_Dude
03-24-2011, 8:30 AM
a long time ago, i read that ick/ich becomes sterile at around 85 and cannot reproduce, and the high temps shortens their life cycle so they die quicker. A long time ago, i had an ick/ich outbreak and used this method and it cleared it right up. I haven't had an ick/ich outbreak in several years now, so I haven't had a chance to test it again. Is there any truth to the high temps making it unable to reproduce?

pookie
03-24-2011, 11:06 PM
You'll need another 10 days of continuing the treatment after ich disappears. Get a functioning heater so you can avoid prolonging the treatment period.

So even at the 0.02% does if I can get the heater to work it should kill off the ich..?

I noticed today my bichir has spots on her now, I might go buy more salt and say **** the pleco because I dont want her to die..

Im gonna mess with the heater now..

calioutlaw1a
03-25-2011, 12:38 AM
a long time ago, i read that ick/ich becomes sterile at around 85 and cannot reproduce, and the high temps shortens their life cycle so they die quicker. A long time ago, i had an ick/ich outbreak and used this method and it cleared it right up. I haven't had an ick/ich outbreak in several years now, so I haven't had a chance to test it again. Is there any truth to the high temps making it unable to reproduce?

Ich dies at 89.5°F, stops reproducing at 86°F, and stops infecting new fish at 85°F.

pookie
03-25-2011, 12:56 AM
cool thats good to know :)

Got my heater working again !!!

Carefree_Dude
03-25-2011, 7:43 AM
Ich dies at 89.5°F, stops reproducing at 86°F, and stops infecting new fish at 85°F.



Why do we do the salt thing when it seems a quick (slowly done) temp raise to 90 will wipe it out?

Carefree_Dude
03-25-2011, 7:49 AM
oops double post

Tokey
03-25-2011, 7:49 AM
Carefree_Dude, that is a good question. I have always used heat and salt which has worked beautifully for me. I know we commonly use salt to help with stress but not as much as this "heat/salt" treatment calls for. I love all my fish too much to experiment lol so this is going to bug the hell out of me all day

pookie
03-25-2011, 6:33 PM
wouldnt it hurt the fish in the tank being up at 90degrees?

calioutlaw1a
03-26-2011, 3:06 AM
Why do we do the salt thing when it seems a quick (slowly done) temp raise to 90 will wipe it out?


Most fish can hand temperatures in the 85-86 range, but many cannot handle temperatures much higher, certainly not for any extended period.

The idea behind the heat/salt method is to raise the temperature enough to prevent the ich from reproducing and infecting new fish, and use salt to kill the ich that remains (specifically, the theront stage).

Ich also causes loss of Na+ and Cl- from infected fish and damages fish tissues. Salt can help reduce Na+ and Cl- losses, and promote slime coat production to aid in repair of damaged tissue.

pookie
03-29-2011, 3:29 PM
I have a question, I have had a 0.02% salt mix in my tank for 10 days now, no signs of ich anymore, how much longer? Another 7 days?

calioutlaw1a
03-29-2011, 8:49 PM
What is your temp at? If its around 85, then wait 4 days after the last signs of ich.

If you want to be extra careful, you can wait a week after the last signs of ich, but in my experience I have never had a problem with waiting only 4 days. I use 4 days because at 80 degrees this is how long the life cycle of ich takes.

Be sure to inspect your fish very thoroughly before returning it to your main tank if it is in a quarantine tank.

pookie
03-29-2011, 11:32 PM
Okay it is at 80 spot on :)

I will wait the 4 days, they all seem clear and very healthy! I wish my severum hadnt died :(
Oh well, I saved all the others.

Should I do a 50% water change? Or the whole thing..?

I want to take everything out and put sand in, but I dont want to stress the fish to much..

calioutlaw1a
03-30-2011, 12:16 AM
Do a 25% water change each day for 4 consecutive days, or a 50% water change on 2 of the next 4 days.

pookie
03-30-2011, 2:20 AM
Okay thank you so much! Youve helped me out A LOT! :)

calioutlaw1a
03-30-2011, 7:26 PM
You are welcome!

bchu
03-31-2011, 1:21 AM
ty you

PToney
08-26-2011, 8:46 PM
Not trying to beat a dead horse.... Just curious as to the possible effect of salt on my fish. Only one is showing signs of ich. I am in the process of upping the temp to around 88. Dont want to pose further harm to others with the salt. I have also added air stones to increase O2.
2- clown loaches
1- raphael cat
2- angel fish
3- balas
1- senegal bichir
1- clown knife

ilikeb00st
08-27-2011, 12:41 PM
does ich/ick affects the slime coat on the fish? i have an ich infested tank and it looks like slime coats are coming off the fish..

TaratronVaeVictus
08-27-2011, 3:42 PM
I would not add salt, PToney; clown loaches are pretty high stress to it, and I think knives are too. Add some extra air stones or a powerhead aimed at the surface, cease or slow down feeding a good deal, and keep up the water changes.

ilike, what do you mean? On what kind of fish? Some fish 'slough' their skin, like hoplos, I think, when they have an irritant in the water.

PToney
08-27-2011, 3:46 PM
Thanks for the reply TaratronVaeVictus.

ilikeb00st
08-27-2011, 10:14 PM
I would not add salt, PToney; clown loaches are pretty high stress to it, and I think knives are too. Add some extra air stones or a powerhead aimed at the surface, cease or slow down feeding a good deal, and keep up the water changes.

ilike, what do you mean? On what kind of fish? Some fish 'slough' their skin, like hoplos, I think, when they have an irritant in the water.

They are severum and p bass. Seems like their slime coat are coming off (like long thin strands) they're covered in ich. It like jelly-ish consistency surrounding its body

hannahsand0911
08-29-2011, 8:19 PM
ive heard putting aquarium salt in the tank will help them alot

hannahsand0911
08-31-2011, 6:36 PM
is it true that if you put a tablespoon of salt in the tank a month itll help out a lil with health?

hhchun610
10-01-2011, 12:38 AM
Hi, I bought a pregnant female from an aquarium store. I put her in a separate tank from the rest of my guppies because she looks like she is about to pop. I had 1 fry in a breeder tank floating inside the tank when I noticed with lights on her that she had 2 white dots on her anal fin and dorsal fin and 1 on her body (Ich eeeeek). I moved my 1 fry to a 1 gallon tank and am watching closely to make sure they are not trying to scratch against anything/have white specs also. I have raised the temperature to 86 degrees F, but cannot get my aquarium salt until 6 AM which I plan to get up and go get. (5 gallon tank heavily planted with fake silk plants) I have an air stone along with a power filter and because I had her in for almost 14 hours I fear it may have spread and do not want to take any chances so I am treating the whole tank and re-cycling afterwords. Sadly, I do not have any places I can quickly get a salt test kit. I read on the front page to treat for 10 days at 86 degrees F with 2 tsp. per gal. of aquarium salt, but what about water changes? Are they needed every day, every couple days, not at all? And is it safe to say that if you replace 1 gallon of tank water you replace with 1 gallon of conditions water with 2 tsp. of new aquarium salt?


Sorry for the extremely long message I just want to be safe with this momma guppy and thanks for your replies! :)

ajt87
10-02-2011, 12:15 AM
good info here

ahrealmonsters
10-25-2011, 12:53 PM
Great info wish I saw this thead when my tank got ich, i lost my favorite gar because i used a ich treatment instead of salt.

onneeye
11-24-2011, 10:18 AM
Got my first case of ick. Couple of my tetra and cherry barb got white spots. Started high temp and salt treatment. Added Ich Attack (great product). Ich cleared up in couple days.

Thanks for the great info on ich treatment. Kept my ghost shrimp safe.

devilhorn
11-24-2011, 6:46 PM
i use copper safe

zaedmi92
12-12-2011, 7:39 PM
I have two Oscars, two Black Convicts, one Striped Raphael Catfish, one Pleco and one Silver tipped shark. I came home Sunday after being gone since Friday and noticed my fish had ick (they were rubbing on the decorations and had white spots) so I immediately went to the nearest pet store and bought a medicine called Super Ick Cure made by a company called API. I followed the directions and used the recommended half dosage for the catfish. It's been two days and seems as if all of my fish are doing good except my silver tipped shark, he is the only one who still has white spots on him, and he's swimming very weakly and floating at the top. I've had to seperate him, because the other fish are nipping at him. The directions on the medicine say I should add another dosage after 48 hours I'm just wondering if this could further harm my silver tipped since he is a scaleless fish or should I treat him in a different manner?

joyjoke123
12-18-2011, 10:27 PM
i never knew there was even a disease.............