Will a gar eat its self to death?

[F1 VET]

No one said anything about quarintining or breeding their own feeders so why wouldn't I assume. ?

If you just buy feeders at your lfs you are risking your fishes health and imo its not worth it. I understand gars and feeders are somewhat essential, but that doesn't mean feeding them food that has a chance of desease or parasites.

Saying you take better care of your fish is very insulting, and in all honesty is just a guess. I put a lot of time and effort into healthy fk, sorry if I stepped on your toes or assumed anything.I didn't even mean thus post for you, other people getting into fk and gars need not feed store bought feeders, unless properly kept,bred and fed.



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[F1 VET]

I 100% agree with MonsterMinis.
@F1 Vet- When in the world did I say 1)I don't quarantine my feeders and 2)I don't care about my fish? That has nothing to do with OP. My feeders are quarantined for a minimum of a month and treated for parasites, ich, or whatever else. They are fed a premium diet and are not put into the tank with my FLG unless they are active, bright in color, have good appetite, and responsive. I absolutely love my FLG. He is my #1 fish. I have dropped weak feeders in before and he won't touch them. He can tell they're weak or sick so he doesn't even bother them. So dont make assumptions based on absolutely nothing. Also just an addition I don't feed just goldfish. I do a mixture of goldfish and shiners. I'm not new to fish. I take care of my fish better than myself.

When did I say you didnt? I wasn't at all implying you!




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[F1 VET]

I 100% agree with MonsterMinis.
@F1 Vet- When in the world did I say 1)I don't quarantine my feeders and 2)I don't care about my fish? That has nothing to do with OP. My feeders are quarantined for a minimum of a month and treated for parasites, ich, or whatever else. They are fed a premium diet and are not put into the tank with my FLG unless they are active, bright in color, have good appetite, and responsive. I absolutely love my FLG. He is my #1 fish. I have dropped weak feeders in before and he won't touch them. He can tell they're weak or sick so he doesn't even bother them. So dont make assumptions based on absolutely nothing. Also just an addition I don't feed just goldfish. I do a mixture of goldfish and shiners. I'm not new to fish. I take care of my fish better than myself.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?306686-The-Piranha-Nutrition-Thread

http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/Articles/Thiaminase.htm







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[Dahawkster15]

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?306686-The-Piranha-Nutrition-Thread

http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/Articles/Thiaminase.htm


I'm not going to read those articles any time soon but the first one is directed towards piranhas? Not really sure what you're saying or trying to prove but my Florida gar is A) Not obese, B) Eating proportionately and C) Is growing at a good pace. I will continue to feed feeders because that's what he will eat. I don't sit here and complain about you feeding pellets to your fish. You're entitled to do whatever you want or feel is best. I feel what is best is to give them a VARIED diet of different kinds of live foods.

 

[Dahawkster15]

I don't own a piranha and I don't own a turtle. There are bad things in every kind of food. You feed pellets and I'll feed feeders

 

[F1 VET]

Haha wow. There fish, they require the same basics bub, and the second article has nothing to do with piranhas or turtles and is a university study, you can Google search goldfish. They are bad and contain a hormone that slows down chemical reactions in fish therefore slowing the growth of urs. Why not read? U may better ur fishes life and learn something....

Duh.



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[MonsterMinis]

My point is you're telling people feeders are bad for their gar.. not just in this thread.. but just about every thread in reguards to gar feeding. when the Experts on the forum, not just hobbyist but scientists back feeding live foods. I also stated in Caps even that gar are Piscivores.. piscivores diets in the wild are very different then most other meat eaters. No ones said that live foods are 100% safe and a wonder food.. but they are better then pellets in helping control obesity, and in general a more balance food if fed appropriately. Sol iir posted some studies awhile back in reguards to thiamine and gars not showing any adverse reactions to the chemical in goldfish and caprids in general. or possibly he shared it with us. however thiamine is believed to be a very big part in cichlids haveing mineral/vitamin defficencies, and should NEVER be fed caprids due to this.

the studies you stated I have not read, i don't have that time atm. But goldfish stunting growth is false... at least in gars. Every gar I own is fed live fish its first year unless it will also take pellets which are fed sparingly. My gar all reach average.. or better size in YoY growths.

Most fish exude growth stunting hormeones.. thats how fish can be stunted... my gar eating fish such as goldfish won't stunt them... but not doing frequent water changes very well might being the hormeones from the goldfish would be in the water with the gar, unless removed. This might be confusing you with the study, like I said haven't read it yet but i will.

I honestly do think the OP has some aggression issues which are why his gar is so "boring"

 

[mrwinkle]

^ One night during a chat session, when it was available, I asked NEO and several other accomplished hobbyists/scientist if a fish has been stunted can you, with proper care, make the fish start growing again? NOBODY could answer the question for me. I got a TSN from a member that had it for 10 years and it was only 19" he said he believed it was stunted, when i got rid of him he was knocking on 30" and i had him for 2 years. My point is many things in this hobby are for certain and many things are opinion. If you read the stickies you will see the best thing is a BALANCED DIET that is the case with any living organism. I feed my gars pellets, tilapia and shrimp, and sometimes FEEDERS. I don't however make them the staple of their diet. Why? Because that is what "I" like to do. I feel safer feeding them pellets and tilapia because i know the risk of infestation are a lot lower than with feeders. That is just MY OPINION.

MonsterMinis and F1 VET I have got lots of good info from both of you that i used in my husbandry, I just think sometimes we all forget there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[ShadowBass]

Haha wow. There fish, they require the same basics bub, and the second article has nothing to do with piranhas or turtles and is a university study, you can Google search goldfish. They are bad and contain a hormone that slows down chemical reactions in fish therefore slowing the growth of urs. Why not read? U may better ur fishes life and learn something....

Duh.

Fish are not just fish when it comes to nutrition.
Otherwise we'd be feeding our algaevore plecos the same foods as our piscivores. Not all piscivores are the same either, and in fact pirahanas may have specialized nutrition requirements compared to north american gar.

The thiamanase debate really has nothing to do with live vs non, since frozen foods can also be high in thiamanase. And while pellets may be safer on this account, and also contain vitamin supplements many gar won't accept them and the best you can hope for is to gut load your feeders, or stick some in their frozen foods.

 

[F1 VET]

Keep feeding ur fish unquarentined and unhealthy feeders from ur lfs. I'll be waiting for you rip thread.

If your gonna feed feeders breed ur own or quarentine for a month....simple....

And yes if you feed ONLY gold fish it WILL stunt its growth. Very common knowledge. Mr winkle is a smart fk


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