Large cichlid aggression levels/Help me plan my big tank

ragin_cajun

ragin_cajun

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The longer I keep fish, the more I believe that you just can't tell what's gonna happen. Managing aggression is nothing more than judgement and trial and error. Only generality I've heard here about aggression is this--keep fish together from a young age, and maybe, MAYBE, they'll live in peace with other fish when they're older. That's about it. Put 4 Zonatus in a tank, none of them are mean, but 1 of the 4 Fenestratus with them ARE mean. The 1 inch Argentea you think will get crushed by the 6 inch Syn, 5 inch JD, 5 inch Zonatus, never has any problem. The 5 inch Breidohri you worry about putting in the tank ends up being the top of the pecking order. There's no telling.

Then, there's the fish that got all his fins ripped off, pulled outta the tank for a few weeks to recover, put him back in and he's fine for months--same fish, but nobody wants to beat him anymore. What's that all about? Or the fish that was just totally cool for a year, then one week he hits a little growth spurt and starts whooping everybody in the tank. We'll never understand it.
 
Empyreal

Empyreal

Fire Eel
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ragin_cajun said:
The longer I keep fish, the more I believe that you just can't tell what's gonna happen. Managing aggression is nothing more than judgement and trial and error. Only generality I've heard here about aggression is this--keep fish together from a young age, and maybe, MAYBE, they'll live in peace with other fish when they're older. That's about it. Put 4 Zonatus in a tank, none of them are mean, but 1 of the 4 Fenestratus with them ARE mean. The 1 inch Argentea you think will get crushed by the 6 inch Syn, 5 inch JD, 5 inch Zonatus, never has any problem. The 5 inch Breidohri you worry about putting in the tank ends up being the top of the pecking order. There's no telling.


Then, there's the fish that got all his fins ripped off, pulled outta the tank for a few weeks to recover, put hi back in and he's fine for months--same fish, but nobody wants to beat him anymore. What's that all about? Or the fish that was just totally cool for a year, then one week he hits a little growth spurt and starts whooping everybody in the tank. We'll never understand it.
Click to expand...
+1, excellent explanation. To further mystify the subject, Many times people only report (or post in the forums case) when they had an aggressive fish of a certain species. Rarely are non-aggressive individuals of that same species brought up, as there really isn't anything to add or talk about. For example, many have said that Jack dempseys are very aggressive, while severums are more passive. I can tell you that in my cichlids community tank it is totally opposite, but as Ragin cajun said, You never know what ull get, as a consensus overall levels central americans are mean, and you have a much better chance of a sucessful community sticking to primarily south americans. just my 2 cents
 
Q

Quo Vadis

Gambusia
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Apr 12, 2014
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Yeah, I do agree that you never really know what is going to happen. I currently have a very odd combo of cichlids together in the 90g tank because I am doing some remodeling in my basement, and am using it as an opportunity to rearrange some tanks, and get some new bigger ones up in place of my older ones. Granted most the cichlids aren't fully grown, but it is interesting to see how they work together. For example my large Bolivian ram chases around my Sajica, who chases my Geo Steiny, who chases the Ram. My 7in pair of Syns are very passive and have showed zero aggression to anyone, except my 6 in Guinacara who wouldn't leave them alone. I had to move him to a different tank, because he kept trying to beat up the male Syn, who just wanted to be left in peace, but when pushed by the persistently aggressive Guinacara, could give a better fight than the instigator. Or this one: my 3 inch Jewel is dominant over my 3 inch Firemouth, but get outs of the way of my 2 inch Curviceps. So far I haven't really noticed my current CAs being more aggressive as a whole compared to my SAs, it just seems to depend on the individual fish. My Bolivian Ram and Firemouth are probably the two that do the most chasing of subordinate fish!

I guess more than anything I am looking for any red flags on my stock list, or specific fish to keep an eye on.
 
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decoy50

Polypterus
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My advice & experiences:

When your grow out your fish in separate tanks, don't just group them by aggression levels, also pay attention to growth rates of species as well.

I have 3 regani currently & they are some of the mildest vieja that I have kept. Even very litttle conspecific aggression. Lyonsi are very mild mannered amphs - think vieja level aggression. Very high conspecific aggression though.

@DMD123 - good luck with your heteros. Really underrated & underkept fish. I found them to be mild mannered as far as vieja go & very slow growers. Oddly enough, out of all the vieja I have kept, conspecific aggression between heteros was easily the highest - they were brutal towards one another.
 
ragin_cajun

ragin_cajun

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And one other complication in all this. I have a Syn 6-7 inches, biggest fish in the tank and totally cool. But why? Is it really passive, or do all the other fish in the tank just know they don't have a chance cause they're smaller and younger, so they don't try? I bet if I put another CA in with that Syn that's same size and age, fireworks. I think most fish show NO aggression if they don't feel threatened by their tankmates. And that's why huge tanks lessen aggression. Group of fish live on top of each other, get used to that, until they're so crowded it just can't work anymore and they start fighting. But you move them all to a bigger tank, they feel like there's plenty of room again so they don't need to compete for limited space anymore. So, they stop fighting. In general. Some fish are just crazy, too.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
 
D

decoy50

Polypterus
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Quo Vadis said:
Also how hard is Lyonsi to find?
Click to expand...

You've got the internet man, is anything really that hard to find anymore? Frequent Aquabid, Tangled Up in Cichlids, Cichlid Connection & Cichlids of the Americas just to name a few and you'll find Lyonsi eventually. If you are willing to pay shipping, you can get whatever you want nowadays.
 
Q

Quo Vadis

Gambusia
MFK Member
Apr 12, 2014
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Well the reason I was wondering is because I am thinking of ordering from either Cichlid Connection or Cichlids of the Americas, and both of them have most the fish I want, but CC is significantly cheaper, doesn't have a $100 minimum order, but doesn't have the Lyonsi. C of A is more expensive, has a bigger minimum order, but they do have Lyonsi...so I m wondering if it's worth it to order from there (if they are pretty hard to find) or if I should just wait and try to find the Lyonsi later. CC also has a great price on Altifrons, which I am getting for my SA tank. Decisions, decisions.
 
Q

Quo Vadis

Gambusia
MFK Member
Apr 12, 2014
912
21
18
Wisconsin
Well the reason I was wondering is because I am thinking of ordering from either Cichlid Connection or Cichlids of the Americas, and both of them have most the fish I want, but CC is significantly cheaper, doesn't have a $100 minimum order, but doesn't have the Lyonsi. C of A is more expensive, has a bigger minimum order, but they do have Lyonsi...so I m wondering if it's worth it to order from there (if they are pretty hard to find) or if I should just wait and try to find the Lyonsi later. CC also has a great price on Altifrons, which I am getting for my SA tank. Decisions, decisions.
 
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