120g FW Build, A big upgrade from my 10g!

matseski

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 30, 2014
107
12
18
United States
Now that the stand is all glued together and settling (and is holding water), its time to start focusing on the plumbing. I will start the staining process this weekend, hopefully will have the last coat of poly on by midweek. I will then give it 3 weeks to ensure that the polyurethane is 100% cured so my tank does not stick to it.

Water changes:

Now that my tank has 40 gallons of water in it that I need to get out before I can stain it, lets start with water changes. Unfortunately, being in an apartment, I cannot easily plumb the tank into a water line for automatic water changes. To add water the obvious option is to go buy a 20ft length of 3/4"ID tubing and hook it up to my sink faucet and run it into my sump. Since the tank is on carpet, I do not want to be carrying several 5 gallon buckets. I even add a fixed plumbing connection to the sump to ensure that someone doesn't kick the hose or it falls out.

To drain water, I was originally hoping to just use the pump to pump out water, but then I realized that I would only be able to pump out a few gallons since then the water level in the tank would drop to the standpipe and the pump chamber in the sump would be dry. Maybe someone else has a better design, but I am not seeing an easy way to do this without a lot of valves between the sump chambers or lowering the stand pipes considerably. I like the idea of minimal water movement if the electricity goes out. So the best option seems to be to siphon the display tank. I am thinking of making a pvc tube that hangs over the side so that it only removes 20 gallons of water so I can set it and forget it without worrying about draining my tank. Now the question is, what size tube to use? Obviously, faster water changes are better, but I don't want to be pulling so much water through that a curious small fish is sucked onto the strainer. Maybe this isn't a concern, I am not sure... Thinking 1/2" ID tubing.


Sump design:

I have my 10g tank that I can keep as a hospital tank since I don't see the reason to medicate the entire tank for 1 fish. I may even just keep it going with a few tetra to ensure that the water quality is always acceptable. If I end up with fry, I can also put them in the 10g or get one of those mesh nurseries. With that in mind, I think I stand to gain the most by using the extra 14" of my sump in line with the filter system with plants to help balance water parameters in the off photocycle of the display. I will leave the drains from the tank in their own compartment in case I decide to change out the foam block for filter socks. Design 2

Overflows:

Left overflow: Herbie
Right overflow: Durso/return. Is it ok to use a ball valve for the durso style drain or does it work better with a gate as the Herbie?

Return line:

The last think I am really unsure about is the return line. To reduce vibrations, I am going to run a short segment of flexible tubing from the pump to the PVC. There will be a ball valve beneath the bulkhead. At some point I want to add a UV sterilizer and CO2 system. The CO2 system has to be plumbed into the return. The UV system, could in theory be run on its own pump, just keeping my options open. Can you think of any other future additions I may find myself wanting? Any advice on how to keep the system a simple as possible, while making it as easy as possible to do a future upgrade?

The actual return will be a 1" pvc spanning between the 2 overflows. I am debating between just drilling a bunch of holes, or spending the money for some locline components. Any thoughts?

Overall notes:
Everything will be 1" PVC as that is the largest bulkhead I can find for my 1.75" holes. I don't think I will be getting flow rates over 1100gph so it should not limit anything anyways.
 

mudbuttjones

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Jul 29, 2014
1,375
58
66
Wisconsin
Now that the stand is all glued together and settling (and is holding water), its time to start focusing on the plumbing. I will start the staining process this weekend, hopefully will have the last coat of poly on by midweek. I will then give it 3 weeks to ensure that the polyurethane is 100% cured so my tank does not stick to it.

Water changes:

Now that my tank has 40 gallons of water in it that I need to get out before I can stain it, lets start with water changes. Unfortunately, being in an apartment, I cannot easily plumb the tank into a water line for automatic water changes. To add water the obvious option is to go buy a 20ft length of 3/4"ID tubing and hook it up to my sink faucet and run it into my sump. Since the tank is on carpet, I do not want to be carrying several 5 gallon buckets. I even add a fixed plumbing connection to the sump to ensure that someone doesn't kick the hose or it falls out.

To drain water, I was originally hoping to just use the pump to pump out water, but then I realized that I would only be able to pump out a few gallons since then the water level in the tank would drop to the standpipe and the pump chamber in the sump would be dry. Maybe someone else has a better design, but I am not seeing an easy way to do this without a lot of valves between the sump chambers or lowering the stand pipes considerably. I like the idea of minimal water movement if the electricity goes out. So the best option seems to be to siphon the display tank. I am thinking of making a pvc tube that hangs over the side so that it only removes 20 gallons of water so I can set it and forget it without worrying about draining my tank. Now the question is, what size tube to use? Obviously, faster water changes are better, but I don't want to be pulling so much water through that a curious small fish is sucked onto the strainer. Maybe this isn't a concern, I am not sure... Thinking 1/2" ID tubing.


Sump design:

I have my 10g tank that I can keep as a hospital tank since I don't see the reason to medicate the entire tank for 1 fish. I may even just keep it going with a few tetra to ensure that the water quality is always acceptable. If I end up with fry, I can also put them in the 10g or get one of those mesh nurseries. With that in mind, I think I stand to gain the most by using the extra 14" of my sump in line with the filter system with plants to help balance water parameters in the off photocycle of the display. I will leave the drains from the tank in their own compartment in case I decide to change out the foam block for filter socks. Design 2

Overflows:

Left overflow: Herbie
Right overflow: Durso/return. Is it ok to use a ball valve for the durso style drain or does it work better with a gate as the Herbie?

Return line:

The last think I am really unsure about is the return line. To reduce vibrations, I am going to run a short segment of flexible tubing from the pump to the PVC. There will be a ball valve beneath the bulkhead. At some point I want to add a UV sterilizer and CO2 system. The CO2 system has to be plumbed into the return. The UV system, could in theory be run on its own pump, just keeping my options open. Can you think of any other future additions I may find myself wanting? Any advice on how to keep the system a simple as possible, while making it as easy as possible to do a future upgrade?

The actual return will be a 1" pvc spanning between the 2 overflows. I am debating between just drilling a bunch of holes, or spending the money for some locline components. Any thoughts?

Overall notes:
Everything will be 1" PVC as that is the largest bulkhead I can find for my 1.75" holes. I don't think I will be getting flow rates over 1100gph so it should not limit anything anyways.

If you're running a mag18, I would accept no less than 1.5" tubing. You will not get any where near the advertised flow curve with 1" tubing. I know the outlet on these pumps is smaller (my 9.5 is 3/4") you'll have to use a threaded bushing to step up to 1.5". I know it sounds crazy. This is what danner reccomends in their instructions. This is why their pumps have such impressive flow curves. They are less effected by head loss because of the lower friction provided by oversized plumbing. If you pipe that through a 1" bulkhead you'll lose any benefit to using the correct size plumbing. There isnt any medium I can find thats flexible at 1.5" so I was stuck with 1.5" pvc hard plumbed.

Hard plimbing over the back isnt hard. I bought pvc conduit straps to hold my pipes to the back of the stand like so. View attachment 1043559

If I were you id look for a pump that didn't require crazy large plumbing. Or run the large mag return over the back. Also running flexible tubing remember the inner diameter of a hose barb fitting is much smaller, you'll be restricting your self to .75" with 1" flexible hose. uploadfromtaptalk1414077827872.jpg
uploadfromtaptalk1414077849941.jpg
So if your set on using hose consider 1.25" hose and barbs. 1.25" is still fairly flexible.

spaflex is a good option as it can be glued into regular pvc fittings. Also avoid threaded bulkheads (this is a personal preference) it takes some careful planning but slip bulkheads get you slightly more inner diameter. Your plumbing is only as good as the smallest fitting.

Being that you have 4 holes I would be inclined to use them all for drains. I actually drilled a 3rd in my 90 reef ready tank, 120 is a bit larger pushing more water 4 would be good piece of mind. Ive been thinking about it while messing with my plumbing this morning. Siphon/durso in one and durso/dry pipe in the other would make sense. I would def pair the siphon with an open channel durso style. Ive never messed with dual overflow boxes so I don't know, you'll have to so some testing to see what works right for you. 3 drains may work just fine, just find a pump thats optimized for a 1" bulkhead/plumbing.

You shouldn't need a ballvalve on a durso unless you wanna turn it off. Its flow will be regulated by the herbie drain, the durso will accept any flow thats left over basically.

I made a water changer with a 3/4" pvc "u" tube and 1/2" tubing. I can drain and refill my 75g in less than a half hour. Its adequate but if I had it to do over I'd use 3/4 tubing also.uploadfromtaptalk1414078250854.jpg


:edit: I Apologize matt, I'm not trying to tell you how to do your build. Im not right or wrong - I've been tinkering with my build since august...one mistake after another, ironing out all the kinks.

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matseski

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 30, 2014
107
12
18
United States
No worries, those are good points. I would prefer to keep all the plumbing internal if possible. It will let me push the tank up against the wall and if a leak does develop in the PVC joints, it will just leak back into the pump instead of on my floor. Anyone know of a good pump that can push 1000gph through a 1" pipe up 5'?

3 drains will be way more than sufficient and with the inch or 2 at the top of the tank, even if all 3 drains get clogged, I will still be able to accommodate almost all, if not, all of the water in the pump section of the sump.
 

mudbuttjones

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Jul 29, 2014
1,375
58
66
Wisconsin
I understand the desire to use the return holes. It makes return plumbing alot easier, being a straight shot.

3 drains is more than sufficient. Ive ran a tank before with only one, I just figure if they are holes drilled I'd use them all.

I've heard good things about laguna pumps and the new jebao dc 24v pumps are generating alot of positive reception.

I always liked magdrives because parts are so readily available and inexpensive. The plumbing on them is just silly though. Typically 1.5" is reserved for pumps over 2,000 gph.



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matseski

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 30, 2014
107
12
18
United States
That Jebao DC pump looks like it may fit the bill. Cheaper than the Mags and more efficient. Now to decide what turnover do I really want/need (aka do I need 1.5" or will 1" suffice). The Jebao pumps make it affordable to go up to their 3000 gph pump...I obviously dont need that much, but how much do I really want for a planted FW tank? I have seen information suggesting anywhere from 2-15x per hour. Some people say less than a non planted tank, other say more. I'lll have to do some more research and see if I can come to a consensus.
 

matseski

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 30, 2014
107
12
18
United States
I rebuilt my Solidworks model with 1.5" piping, but in order for it to work, I cannot use 45deg bends due to the height of the glass and location of the horizontal 2x6. With the 1" piping, I only need 1x90deg bend and 2x45deg bends. With the 1.5 I would need 5x90 deg elbows. Plugging that change into the calculator and a small addition in plumbing length (both horizontal and vertical), with a bunch of different pumps, makes the difference in flow rate less than 10%. With the increased cost, plumbing complexity, and consequences if a leak emerges, I am going to go with a 1" return with a Jebao DC-9000 (rated at about 1500gph at 5' head). I figure that is probably a little high and assuming 1.5" plumbing. The losses due to 1" vs 1.5" and bends should put me around 1000, which is where I want to be.
 

mudbuttjones

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Jul 29, 2014
1,375
58
66
Wisconsin
That'll put you close to 10x which is kind of the rule of thumb for FW tanks.

Being that you'll have plants lesser flow will be a good thing, pushing 20x flow would turn your tank into an autumn hell scape of leaves flying around lol

The more volume you run through a baffled sump, the shorter the contact time is with the bio media. So there isnt much to gain biologically, your filtering more water less efficiently. .. the main benefit is circulation in the display tank and catching more mechanical waste.

I think your making the right call with the jabao.

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matseski

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 30, 2014
107
12
18
United States
I am finalizing all of the cutouts in my stand and hood for my electrical connections and fans. The only other thing I can think of is air tubes which would require notches in the back of the hood. With a fish only tank I would say that they are a great insurance against a pump failure to keep things alive until you realize the problem. However, in a non-CO2 planted tank, would they effectively reduce the CO2 content of my water even further, potentially making it difficult to keep plants? I will definitely have a few air pumps for when I go out of of town just since I may not be able to check on the tank every few hours and I suspect with the sump and reasonable turnover rater, I should not have a dissolved oxygen deficiency.

Any thoughts?
 

matseski

Gambusia
MFK Member
Mar 30, 2014
107
12
18
United States
Where do you buy strainers that go on the outside of your pipes instead of the insert strainers which will limit my overall flow significantly? I cannot find any. Or do you have to get a step up to the next size and use, say, a 1.25" strainer for a 1" PVC?
 
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