Talk about a bad trip and a terrible way to go, being disoriented and tipsy and trying to figure out why it's been pulled from the water and everything is groggy, then realizing it's in a closed box with a hungry predator and not being able to swim straight. Go watch fear and loathing in Las Vegas and then decide if it's a better state of mind to be in right before being eaten.
A more ethical way to live feed?
- Thread starter Zmouvek
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Hello; This is an old conversation with a sort of modern twist. I cannot make the call that it is somehow part of newer sets of ideas such as being "woke" or the like. Over the decades we were in basically two groups. Those with the stomach for live feeding and those without. The answer was simple enough, just do not keep animals needing live food if such disturbs.
This clove oil or any other such notion is a mind game. Hence my question about maybe being woke. Somehow trying to fool yourself. The feeder is still alive even if sedated. No way around that fact. Woke ideas seem to me have twisted facts about biology in general so as to become ridiculous.
Perhaps unrelated but the clove oil idea seems to play into some of the PETA type agendas. Those agendas do not want us keeping pets at all.
Live feeders present problems. At one time in the distant past I would ask for the bait minnows not used up during a fishing trip. Not a good idea for a few reasons. Disease and parasites being just two. Raising live foods gives some level of control over disease and parasites.
Using culled fry from excess breeding projects solves two problems. A few years ago i wound up with a breeding pair of common angel cichlids. I raised a number of fry and was able to give some to a fish shop I frequent. There were some disfigured fry I wound up keeping and allowed them to live out their lives. Had to set up a tank for them. Fortunately, the breeding pair did not produce large numbers so it was doable. Similar dilemma for breeders in terms of what we have the stomach for. If you breed large numbers, you will need to cull. If you cannot stand to cull, then do not get into breeding.
enough from me.
This clove oil or any other such notion is a mind game. Hence my question about maybe being woke. Somehow trying to fool yourself. The feeder is still alive even if sedated. No way around that fact. Woke ideas seem to me have twisted facts about biology in general so as to become ridiculous.
Perhaps unrelated but the clove oil idea seems to play into some of the PETA type agendas. Those agendas do not want us keeping pets at all.
Live feeders present problems. At one time in the distant past I would ask for the bait minnows not used up during a fishing trip. Not a good idea for a few reasons. Disease and parasites being just two. Raising live foods gives some level of control over disease and parasites.
Using culled fry from excess breeding projects solves two problems. A few years ago i wound up with a breeding pair of common angel cichlids. I raised a number of fry and was able to give some to a fish shop I frequent. There were some disfigured fry I wound up keeping and allowed them to live out their lives. Had to set up a tank for them. Fortunately, the breeding pair did not produce large numbers so it was doable. Similar dilemma for breeders in terms of what we have the stomach for. If you breed large numbers, you will need to cull. If you cannot stand to cull, then do not get into breeding.
enough from me.
Personally, I am against live feeding because it is an abortion of the natural process, there is no chance for escape for the prey, and it just does not sit right with me because of that. However, there are scenarios where it is necessary to get the animal to eat, and must be done, so we should try to minimize pain, just out of respect for the life of the creature.
On being "Woke", frankly I've been called a fascist multiple times for such things as thinking that abortion is murder, I am anything but a social Marxist! Perish the thought! I was just thinking that by sharing my ideas, they could catch on, sedating animals before they are killed could be a great tool for avoiding undue suffering.
I just think it would be better
Hello; A good thing is you get to run your tanks any way you wish. Ignore us on this forum as often as needed. On a subject like this there is not too much known risk to the fish. My only real question is will the sedative affect the fish being fed. Outside that it is what you want to do. I know hunters who have rituals of respect after killing game. Do whatever you like.
Well, lets think about this briefly, so, the oil is absorbed into the blood via the gills, and proceeds to do it's thing, so now lets think about what happens when that fish is swallowed, the blood still contains the sedative, but now its being absorbed via the gut, which is slower and less quick as that (Like imagine eating a cigarette, and absorbing the nicotine in your gut, much slower eyy?), with the time involved to absorb, I believe that the liver will be able to remove at a similar rate, FW fish are always peeing after all. And a feeder that is small enough to be eaten most likely will not have a significant amount of oil in it to begin with. At least for a fish the size to eat it.
Hello; Fair enough. I looked to see how long you have been a member. December 2022. I joined around 14 years ago but had kept fish since around 1959. What i found was many things I knew to be good from decades of experience were controversial on here. Had i been new to the hobby this place would have been confusing.
Pleased i do not have your dilemma. There are a few "ethical" topics been cussed and discussed on here many times. You notion is a bit novel but essentially is part of the overall live feeding discussion. Want a big response throw out a tank stocking density formula.
The reason I say it is torture is because the fish needs to be netted out and placed into a container with anaesthetic, then slowly lose its motor functions. It is then still awake but unable to flee once.
It's closer to catching a sheep, forcefully making it inhale anaesthetic, then tossing it into a cage with wolves.
Hello; I simply do not have a working clue as to how accurate this idea of yours might be. You may have it nailed or maybe not. Most every other discussion of using clove oil is just before a fish is killed to put it out of its misery. I do not ever see myself taking this route. If i ever need to do live feeders i will not try this method.
You may be onto something acceptable or you may be creating unnecessary complications with bd outcomes. Be a pioneer and keep us posted.
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