A Tribute to the Under Gravel Filter..

[David R]

Other than that, the nitrates are eaten up by the houseplant in the hob filter, like plants beside a river would do. All problems are best solved by The Master Engineer GOD.

In a riverine environment I think God/nature solved the problem of nitrates by doing a continuous 100% water change.

If you like light-moderate stocked tanks with deep beds of coarse gravel and fish that don't dig, I guess the good old UGF still has its merits. I dislike gravel substrates, and hate having equipment in the tank, so they're not for me.

Sounds interesting what you're doing, I'd be interested to see nitrate and TDS readings for your tank though.

 

[skjl47]

In a riverine environment I think God/nature solved the problem of nitrates by doing a continuous 100% water change.

If you like light-moderate stocked tanks with deep beds of coarse gravel and fish that don't dig, I guess the good old UGF still has its merits. I dislike gravel substrates, and hate having equipment in the tank, so they're not for me.

Sounds interesting what you're doing, I'd be interested to see nitrate and TDS readings for your tank though.

Hello; I understand the thinking behind the 100% water change in a natural setting, but do contend that the water flowing past any particular point in a river, stream or even ponded water will have a load and not necessarily be "clean". There may be some stretches early in a river system where the water has not picked up much stuff. That also can mean that the head of river systems tributaries will not support much for the same reason. As the water makes it way along, a load of organic material, dissolved material and suspended material will be added. There can be a large flow volume at a place but the water flowing by will have parameters based on what is in it.

Another way to look at it is that the various forms of power filters we use create flow. We can choose to deal with the buildup of materials in the water by lots of water changes or by some imitation of a natural system using things like living plants to help.

I have and will continue to set up tanks with UGF and other types of filtration depending on the intended use and the equipment on hand. One thing positive thing, among others, about UGF's is that I have never had one to fail in over 50 years. I cannot say that about any other filter system I have used.

 

[thepotz]

I surprised myself... I blew the dust off my master test kit, and decided to just put my money where my mouth was, and.. 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite, and 6.8 ph. although I do not have a test for nitrate, with the levels the way they are for ammonia, and nitrite, I am guessing it wouldn't be high. I fed the fish about 6 hrs ago.
Maybe I'll have a glass of aquarium water with dinner tonight! I think I'll buy a ram from my lfs today.

 

[thepotz]

skjl47 I totally agree 100% with your statements! I have never had a UGF fail either! LOL! I think a river and stream have a large bio load to deal with also.. particularly plant matter. but Mossy rock and BB on the river bottom can deal with that fairly easily! I am not saying NEVER do a water change, I'm just saying that a weekly water change on an established filtration system is unnecessary, even bi-weekly. I think water changes in my opinion are for dealing with problems or emergencies, not maintenance!

 

[joe jaskot]

Joe jaskot, You name the fish that cannot live in my tank, and I'll throw one in there!

Try keeping a discus or some tropheus in your tank without changing water. Let me know how they do.

I'm not knocking undergravel filters. They do work. I still have a couple running in a few of my tanks, but they do require cleaning the gravel or they will eventually clog.

 

[BuffaloPolypteridae]

You arent reading any ammonia or nitrite because its all converted to nitrate!

Pothos work great and all, undergravels work well with simple setups and tough fish (like goldfish), but i can practically gurantee you drop mostly any other tropical fish in there and it wont survive a month w/ that schedule. I do 2 40% WCs on my 70 gallon w/ tropical fish... some are very sensitive to nitrate (datnoid, peacock bass) and keeping nitrate below 20 ppm is a must of good growth and avoiding sickness.

Dont get me wrong, your setup is great for what it is, a goldfish tank. Dont claim you can never do WCs, young kids still learning prowl these forums and will lose a lot of fish (unless it was goldfish) if they took that advice

Goldfish can survive horrendous conditions, my sister has 3 gold fish in a one gallon bowl w/o bubbler or filtration and changes water as much as you do and hers have lived for years...

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[thepotz]

alright, I'm gonna go find a nitrate test kit and just see where they are, you may be dead on!

 

[David R]

skjl47 fair points, but also remember a river isn't a closed loop, there is often new water entering the "system" from rainfall and tributaries. Regardless, the ratio of fish:water isn't even comparable to aquaria. If we're taking our advice from nature we should all be keeping 2000g tanks with a handful of small fish.

I am not saying NEVER do a water change, I'm just saying that a weekly water change on an established filtration system is unnecessary, even bi-weekly. I think water changes in my opinion are for dealing with problems or emergencies, not maintenance!

As Buffalopolypteridae said, your nitrite and ammonia in any established tank should be zero, regardless of whether you have 10 neon tetras or tank overstocked full of large predators. Nitrate is about the only quantifiable indicator we have for water changes, but there is certainly more to it than that IMO.

 

[thepotz]

Got the api test, and it kinda sucks, cuz I can't tell a difference in color between 40 and 80 ppm? my water tested red which is either 40 or 80ppm, but that's a big leap between the two. the kit recommends 40 or under, so if it's 40 i'm prolly borderline. Either way I need more plants.... cuz if you think i'm gonna do a w/c every week yer nuts! I also have another aquarium with two 4" red tail barbs, and a 6" bala shark, and although they are on an aquaponics system, I don't change their water either... so either I just happen to have all very hardy fish, or weekly water changes are unnecessary.

 

[Jc1119]

No offense, but a weekly water change in a 35 gallon tank really doesn't take that long. Especially with a Python.





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