Advice sought to help Oscar heal after HITH

scottts210

Exodon
MFK Member
Jun 5, 2023
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Have you tested your water?
Yes
If yes, what is your ammonia?
0
If yes, what is your nitrite?
0
If yes, what is your nitrate?
3-7ppm
If I did not test my water...
...I recognize that I will likely be asked to do a test, and that water tests are critical for solving freshwater health problems.
Do you do water changes?
Yes
What percentage of water do you change?
41-50%
How frequently do you change your water?
Every week
If I do not change my water...
...I recognize that I will likely be recommended to do a water change, and water changes are critical for preventing future freshwater health problems.
This albino Oscar, Tina (we think its a she), has had a pretty bad bout with HITH. She's been treated with Metroplex laced food, API general cure in the water, and 3% epsom salt laden food. She also seems to have some fin rot going on as a secondary infection so the final treatment in the tank was Polyguard for any external stuff. All meds are now out of the tank through water changes.



IMG_0788.jpg

IMG_0789.jpg


The HITH progressed very quickly, even during treatment, but seems to have stopped getting any worse for the past 2-3 weeks or so. She is eating as aggressively as she always has, but seems to be healing very slowly.

She's in a 210 gallon tank with 2 FX-6 filters (no carbon has ever been used in these filters or the tank), a 57 watt UV sterilizer with a new lamp (UV was off as needed during treatments), a small Eheim surface skimmer to keep water surface clean, and an air stone for agitation. I keep water temp at 80F. This tank also houses an EBJD, a Venezuelan pike, a Red Tailed shark, a BN pleco and 5 red hook silver dollar. All fish are at least 2 or more years old except for Tina. I think she's maybe a year now. I don't see any aggression in the tank. She, the pike, and the EBJD all seem to have areas they call their own. No other fish has shown any signs of illness.

This tank's water used to be dGH 9-10, dKH 3-4, pH about 7.4. After learning here that Oscars tend to get HITH in water over 5 dGH hardness if nitrates are above 5, I've slowly over the course of a month or so, lowered the tank parameters to 5dGH, 1.5-2 dKH, pH set to 7 with a phosphate buffer. Tank has 32 stalks of lucky bamboo suspended with their roots in the water to uptake nitrate. There is zero ammonia and zero nitrite. The tank has been in operation for almost 2 years with the second FX-6 added about 6 months ago..

I live in AZ and the water here is pretty much the exact opposite of what you'd want in a Oscar tank, so I make RO/DI and re-mineralize. I routinely verify the RO/DI is doing its job. I do about a 50 gallon change once or twice a week, to keep nitrates below 5 as much as possible. I will admit that 6 months ago before the plants, nitrates used to get as high as 20-30ppm even doing water changes every other day. The plants really help keep the nitrates down. To the 50 gallon make up water, I add cichlid trace, equilibrium for 5 gH, and neutral regulator for ph 7. I used to use carbonate based buffers but trying to get a stable lower pH was very difficult. pH always tended rise back up to 7.4 or so. Once a week I add 8 grams of l-ascorbic acid to the tank (vitamin C). Also weekly, but not on the same day as the Vitamin C, I add Vitachem to the tank water.

They get fed a mixture of 4-5 different kinds of Hikari and Northfin pellets and sticks (some floating, some sinking) once a day, about 2.2grams of food for the whole tank, laced with Vitachem. They all eat pretty voraciously with the food gone in about 30sec - 1min.

We bought Tina from an LFS who said she was being bullied by two other paired-up Oscars, although she wasn't physically hurt at the time and she had no signs of HITH or other disease. Overall she has always seemed like a slow grower to me compared to the other Oscar I've had.

Questions: Is there anything else I should be doing to help Tina recover and be healthy? Am I feeding too little for right now while she heals? Any other advice on anything? How long should it normally take for these sores to heal?

I have learned a lot from MFK about how to take care of these fish but Oscars seem a challenge for me to keep healthy. Thanks for your time.
 
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tlindsey

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Aug 6, 2011
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This albino Oscar, Tina (we think its a she), has had a pretty bad bout with HITH. She's been treated with Metroplex laced food, API general cure in the water, and 3% epsom salt laden food. She also seems to have some fin rot going on as a secondary infection so the final treatment in the tank was Polyguard for any external stuff. All meds are now out of the tank through water changes.



View attachment 1535413

View attachment 1535416


The HITH progressed very quickly, even during treatment, but seems to have stopped getting any worse for the past 2-3 weeks or so. She is eating as aggressively as she always has, but seems to be healing very slowly.

She's in a 210 gallon tank with 2 FX-6 filters (no carbon has ever been used in these filters or the tank), a 57 watt UV sterilizer with a new lamp (UV was off as needed during treatments), a small Eheim surface skimmer to keep water surface clean, and an air stone for agitation. I keep water temp at 80F. This tank also houses an EBJD, a Venezuelan pike, a Red Tailed shark, a BN pleco and 5 red hook silver dollar. All fish are at least 2 or more years old except for Tina. I think she's maybe a year now. I don't see any aggression in the tank. She, the pike, and the EBJD all seem to have areas they call their own. No other fish has shown any signs of illness.

This tank's water used to be dGH 9-10, dKH 3-4, pH about 7.4. After learning here that Oscars tend to get HITH in water over 5 dGH hardness if nitrates are above 5, I've slowly over the course of a month or so, lowered the tank parameters to 5dGH, 1.5-2 dKH, pH set to 7 with a phosphate buffer. Tank has 32 stalks of lucky bamboo suspended with their roots in the water to uptake nitrate. There is zero ammonia and zero nitrite. The tank has been in operation for almost 2 years with the second FX-6 added about 6 months ago..

I live in AZ and the water here is pretty much the exact opposite of what you'd want in a Oscar tank, so I make RO/DI and re-mineralize. I routinely verify the RO/DI is doing its job. I do about a 50 gallon change once or twice a week, to keep nitrates below 5 as much as possible. I will admit that 6 months ago before the plants, nitrates used to get as high as 20-30ppm even doing water changes every other day. The plants really help keep the nitrates down. To the 50 gallon make up water, I add cichlid trace, equilibrium for 5 gH, and neutral regulator for ph 7. I used to use carbonate based buffers but trying to get a stable lower pH was very difficult. pH always tended rise back up to 7.4 or so. Once a week I add 8 grams of l-ascorbic acid to the tank (vitamin C). Also weekly, but not on the same day as the Vitamin C, I add Vitachem to the tank water.

They get fed a mixture of 4-5 different kinds of Hikari and Northfin pellets and sticks (some floating, some sinking) once a day, about 2.2grams of food for the whole tank, laced with Vitachem. They all eat pretty voraciously with the food gone in about 30sec - 1min.

We bought Tina from an LFS who said she was being bullied by two other paired-up Oscars, although she wasn't physically hurt at the time and she had no signs of HITH or other disease. Overall she has always seemed like a slow grower to me compared to the other Oscar I've had.

Questions: Is there anything else I should be doing to help Tina recover and be healthy? Am I feeding too little for right now while she heals? Any other advice on anything? How long should it normally take for these sores to heal?

I have learned a lot from MFK about how to take care of these fish but Oscars seem a challenge for me to keep healthy. Thanks for your time.
I honestly don't think the deep scars will heal. I also believe canister filters complicate things when keeping a soft water species.
 
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scottts210

Exodon
MFK Member
Jun 5, 2023
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I honestly don't think the deep scars will heal. I also believe canister filters complicate things when keeping a soft water species.
Thanks for responding. I really hope you're wrong about the scars, at least somewhat. I don't understand how they got so big. I started treatment the second I saw a couple of small pits on her forehead and during the treatment they expanded to this size before stopping. It was really shocking.

I've seen you mention canisters being a problem on Oscar tanks before. Other than the maintenance needed to keep nitrates down, is there some other concern? I just cleaned one of the canisters last week after about 6 months and there was really not much visible muck in it at all. I just replaced the mechanical media, cleaned the inside of the unit with tank water and a brush, and rinsed the biological media. I'm waiting a couple weeks to clean the second unit.

Thanks again.
 
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LBDave

Peacock Bass
MFK Member
Nov 27, 2018
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Long Beach
I assume you RO and re-mineralize as a pre-treatment before this water is sent to the tank?
All in all it seems you do a lot of work to treat the water.
I have very hard water where I live, + high Ph and have thought of trying to buffer the water with chemicals but decided against it. Too much chemistry/ variables.
I have had issues with oscars/ HITH as well as my bass. Some get it a bit. Some a lot. Some more than others. Some don't. Some are resistant. I think genetics is #1, factor then #2 stress (from other fish, tank size etc.). #3 to me is Ph and hardness.
These are just my opinions.
Your tank seems a bit crowded. Pike and JD tend to be aggressive. I think Oscars are best when they are the dominant fish in the tank.
From the pictures this is (as you indicated) severe. If you don't see some healing you don't know that you are winning the battle. There should be some healing.
Otherwise, not good. Keeping the water fresh with plenty of large changes a given. As is keeping the filter clean all the time.

As far as feeding - If she is hungry that's a good thing. One healthy feeding a day for a large oscar.

My success with dealing with severe pitting with oscars was treatment with metro. In the water for 2 weeks.
With my bass I did orally (large amount, 3/4 spoon). Every 3 days. For 2 weeks.
 
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FINWIN

Potamotrygon
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Dec 21, 2018
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Also, add powdered vitamin C to the water. Medical grade. Highly absorbable (even through the skin), more so than standard "C". When the oscar comes up to eat shake a spoon over the head. This causes better absorption through mouth and gills. Treat every 2 days. Take pictures to see progress.

I used this on my oscar just for his health since O's need vitamin C. He seemed to like the taste of the powder. I keep mine refrigerated.

1707683505765.png
 

scottts210

Exodon
MFK Member
Jun 5, 2023
38
41
21
I assume you RO and re-mineralize as a pre-treatment before this water is sent to the tank?
All in all it seems you do a lot of work to treat the water.
I have very hard water where I live, + high Ph and have thought of trying to buffer the water with chemicals but decided against it. Too much chemistry/ variables.
I have had issues with oscars/ HITH as well as my bass. Some get it a bit. Some a lot. Some more than others. Some don't. Some are resistant. I think genetics is #1, factor then #2 stress (from other fish, tank size etc.). #3 to me is Ph and hardness.
These are just my opinions.
Your tank seems a bit crowded. Pike and JD tend to be aggressive. I think Oscars are best when they are the dominant fish in the tank.
From the pictures this is (as you indicated) severe. If you don't see some healing you don't know that you are winning the battle. There should be some healing.
Otherwise, not good. Keeping the water fresh with plenty of large changes a given. As is keeping the filter clean all the time.

As far as feeding - If she is hungry that's a good thing. One healthy feeding a day for a large oscar.

My success with dealing with severe pitting with oscars was treatment with metro. In the water for 2 weeks.
With my bass I did orally (large amount, 3/4 spoon). Every 3 days. For 2 weeks.
Thanks for responding. I think you are right about genetics being #1.

Yes, I RO/DI and re-mineralize. AZ is also very hard, high pH, but even worse, varying parameters, as we have 3 sources of our drinking water and the mix varies by time of year so you never rely on the parameters. Another reason to RO/DI is the part of AZ I live in used to be very agricultural and has 8ppm nitrate in the water out of the tap.

First the incoming water is softened conventionally as part of the whole-house treatment. Then it goes through a really large chloramine/chlorine removal filter to prevent the chloramine/chlorine from damaging the RO membranes. Then is goes through a dual membrane R/O and a three stage DI system. The DI system had TDS monitors on it and if it creeps above 0 I change the resin out. I also use a very sensitive chlorine/chloramine test kit to verify the water is safe every so often.

I have an EBJD, somewhat smaller than a standard JD and fairly non-aggressive. I guess I got lucky with the Pike. He likes his cave and is very chill. I think I'm stocked OK. AqAdvisor says I'm at 73% FWIW.

If I don't see some quantifiable improvement I'll run another course of metro dosed food. Did you use the recommended dose for the water volume or did you increase it?
 

scottts210

Exodon
MFK Member
Jun 5, 2023
38
41
21
Also, add powdered vitamin C to the water. Medical grade. Highly absorbable (even through the skin), more so than standard "C". When the oscar comes up to eat shake a spoon over the head. This causes better absorption through mouth and gills. Treat every 2 days. Take pictures to see progress.

I used this on my oscar just for his health since O's need vitamin C. He seemed to like the taste of the powder. I keep mine refrigerated.

View attachment 1535445
Thanks for responding. Yep, I use that exact vitamin C brand. Only once a week though. I'll increase the frequency. I dose it at night and with the UV off to prevent destroying it.

I've been trying to avoid getting it directly on the fish as its pH is very low. Maybe that's not a concern.
 
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LBDave

Peacock Bass
MFK Member
Nov 27, 2018
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Thanks for responding. I think you are right about genetics being #1.

Yes, I RO/DI and re-mineralize. AZ is also very hard, high pH, but even worse, varying parameters, as we have 3 sources of our drinking water and the mix varies by time of year so you never rely on the parameters. Another reason to RO/DI is the part of AZ I live in used to be very agricultural and has 8ppm nitrate in the water out of the tap.

First the incoming water is softened conventionally as part of the whole-house treatment. Then it goes through a really large chloramine/chlorine removal filter to prevent the chloramine/chlorine from damaging the RO membranes. Then is goes through a dual membrane R/O and a three stage DI system. The DI system had TDS monitors on it and if it creeps above 0 I change the resin out. I also use a very sensitive chlorine/chloramine test kit to verify the water is safe every so often.

I have an EBJD, somewhat smaller than a standard JD and fairly non-aggressive. I guess I got lucky with the Pike. He likes his cave and is very chill. I think I'm stocked OK. AqAdvisor says I'm at 73% FWIW.

If I don't see some quantifiable improvement I'll run another course of metro dosed food. Did you use the recommended dose for the water volume or did you increase it?
I think we don't always see overt aggression but it can still be stressful. Even the red hooks could be causing stress.
Sometimes you just need to do what you think is best. Maybe you can save the oscar maybe not. I understand not wanting to change the stocking of the tank.
As far as Metro from Seachem I followed Seachem directions. I had most success with dosing the water with the oscars. For the bass I know that I got a full 3/4 spoon in their mouth and in their tummy.
 
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