Another Sump Questions Thread - With A Twist!

[Kittiee Katt]

Hi all! I figured this is still an idea so I'd post it here, if mods think it's better suited for the 'setup and filtration' section, please move it.

If I can please ask you all to please be patient with me, that would be great. I have questions about a couple of different sump ideas, I apologize in advance for the potential wall of text you're about to read, and for the horrible disorganization in the post...

Firstly, I've had an idea in mind for a "small" sump, but can't find PVC piping and fittings small enough to work on it. The hardware shop near me sell pipes the size I need, but not fittings which I think is stupid but oh well, what can ya do?

So I'm wondering if I could use irrigation hose (like people use for underground sprinklers) or if it would leech god knows what into my tank? I'm going to ring around this arvo and ask about pex pipe after discussing it with another member, if I can't find pex pipe and fittings, will hard irrigation hose work?


Okay, on to part two - the main bit.

We've recently acquired some decent sized tanks (okay, so not "decent" but better than most of our current setups) and my hubby wants to do sumps for them. We've never had sumps before so this is all very new to us both.

This next bit may get confusing as I've got no clue what I'm doing and I apologize in advance, if I need to reexplain anything let me know and I'll do my best.

He wants to use the 170ltr that currently houses my catfish as a sump for the 4'x2'x2' tank we got the other day, seeing as how my catfish will be going in the 4'. I wanted to use the 170ltr as a tank for Miles, my SF betta as he needs a bigger tank.

Well I've come up with a way to have both in the same tank - I think... And that's where you guys come in, I need y'all to tell me what the chances are of this working. I'll attach a terrible drawing below to show what I mean, and I'll try my best to explain it.

If I were to divide the 170ltr into two sections, a "square" with a 'C' around it, would I be able to have Miles in the centre square (red in the drawing) bit and have the 'C' shape running as a sump? Is that possible? I don't expect the 'C' shape to also filter the square center bit, I'll probably just get a few HOBs for the center and call it a day if this works.

This is my terrible drawing, please excuse my horrible handwriting... There is no details like baffle placement or intakes/outtakes etc in the drawing, its just to give an idea of what I'm trying to achieve and find out if its possible. Drawing is "birdseye view" to show what I'm trying to do. The red bit is where Miles will be (if this is possible), the dark blue will be mechanical to trap large particles, the dark green will be to trap medium particles, light green is floss for polishing and purple is for bio and heaters and such, I got bored so I coloured it in lol.
Assuming for a minute that this is possible, would I need a small power head in each corner of the 'C' to prevent dead spots in the corners? I think we will, hubby thinks we won't. Also, center bit will hold roughly 90ltrs, the 'C' bit will hold 80ish (when filled up 5cm from the top which as a sump, it won't be) which seems a little small for a sump on a large tank...

Dot pointed questions for easy answering:
• is 80ltrs a enough total sump volume for a 4'x2'x2' tank or am I grabbing at straws here?

• if I'm not grabbing at straws, will I need power heads in the corners of the 'C' shape to prevent dead spots?

• where the hell would the baffles go in a 'C' shaped sump? I get that they should probably be separating the medias or whatever, but I'm worried about reducing flow around the corner bits, this is so confusing.

• can I use irrigation hose for my mini sump (sump will be filtering a 20ltr tank)? Or can someone suggest fish safe piping that comes in 10-12mm and is available in Australia just in case I can't get pex pipe?


I think that's all I wanted to ask for now, no doubt I'll be back in a few days with more questions. Thanks in advance guys, and sorry about the seemingly endless wall of text.

 

[Fish Tank Travis]

Ok, I read through all of this (I often make long posts too, lol) and I think I have a better idea for how you can run a sump...

First, can you please let me know how many tanks you have, and how many of them are/can be drilled for a sump? Next, can you please tell me what kind of options you have around you for larger totes/tubs?

Ok, assuming that you can get a big tub, or possibly a few, I think you will be better of using those as sumps since I recall you have a hard time finding tanks where you live. If you do this, you just need to set up returns to the tanks and overflows to the sump. This can be done with an individual return pump for each tank, but it would be better with one or two large pumps that have valves at each tank to control flow.

Now, as for your "C" setup, I really don't think that will work well enough for a sump for your tank. If you really want to keep Miles (a betta if I recall correctly) in the sump then I think you will be better off using baffles similar to the picture below. This is my 55gal sump for my 220 and the center section will be a refugium that I plan on keeping more fish/inverts in.



I really do think that getting some tubs and setting up a sump or two that all of your tanks run off of will be your best option. This way, you don't lose any of your tanks since they are hard to come by.

 

[celebrist]

I agree, what I did was tee off my return line and bled off some flow to my "estuary" on the ends of my sump so they would have flow and used poret foam to isolate the section from the main sump. Plants and such for mellow home.
Excellent assistant in the picture by the way

 

[tomojsg]

Hi all! I figured this is still an idea so I'd post it here, if mods think it's better suited for the 'setup and filtration' section, please move it.

If I can please ask you all to please be patient with me, that would be great. I have questions about a couple of different sump ideas, I apologize in advance for the potential wall of text you're about to read, and for the horrible disorganization in the post...

Firstly, I've had an idea in mind for a "small" sump, but can't find PVC piping and fittings small enough to work on it. The hardware shop near me sell pipes the size I need, but not fittings which I think is stupid but oh well, what can ya do?

So I'm wondering if I could use irrigation hose (like people use for underground sprinklers) or if it would leech god knows what into my tank? I'm going to ring around this arvo and ask about pex pipe after discussing it with another member, if I can't find pex pipe and fittings, will hard irrigation hose work?


Okay, on to part two - the main bit.

We've recently acquired some decent sized tanks (okay, so not "decent" but better than most of our current setups) and my hubby wants to do sumps for them. We've never had sumps before so this is all very new to us both.

This next bit may get confusing as I've got no clue what I'm doing and I apologize in advance, if I need to reexplain anything let me know and I'll do my best.

He wants to use the 170ltr that currently houses my catfish as a sump for the 4'x2'x2' tank we got the other day, seeing as how my catfish will be going in the 4'. I wanted to use the 170ltr as a tank for Miles, my SF betta as he needs a bigger tank.

Well I've come up with a way to have both in the same tank - I think... And that's where you guys come in, I need y'all to tell me what the chances are of this working. I'll attach a terrible drawing below to show what I mean, and I'll try my best to explain it.

If I were to divide the 170ltr into two sections, a "square" with a 'C' around it, would I be able to have Miles in the centre square (red in the drawing) bit and have the 'C' shape running as a sump? Is that possible? I don't expect the 'C' shape to also filter the square center bit, I'll probably just get a few HOBs for the center and call it a day if this works.

This is my terrible drawing, please excuse my horrible handwriting... There is no details like baffle placement or intakes/outtakes etc in the drawing, its just to give an idea of what I'm trying to achieve and find out if its possible. Drawing is "birdseye view" to show what I'm trying to do. The red bit is where Miles will be (if this is possible), the dark blue will be mechanical to trap large particles, the dark green will be to trap medium particles, light green is floss for polishing and purple is for bio and heaters and such, I got bored so I coloured it in lol. View attachment 1213955
Assuming for a minute that this is possible, would I need a small power head in each corner of the 'C' to prevent dead spots in the corners? I think we will, hubby thinks we won't. Also, center bit will hold roughly 90ltrs, the 'C' bit will hold 80ish (when filled up 5cm from the top which as a sump, it won't be) which seems a little small for a sump on a large tank...

Dot pointed questions for easy answering:
• is 80ltrs a enough total sump volume for a 4'x2'x2' tank or am I grabbing at straws here?

• if I'm not grabbing at straws, will I need power heads in the corners of the 'C' shape to prevent dead spots?

• where the hell would the baffles go in a 'C' shaped sump? I get that they should probably be separating the medias or whatever, but I'm worried about reducing flow around the corner bits, this is so confusing.

• can I use irrigation hose for my mini sump (sump will be filtering a 20ltr tank)? Or can someone suggest fish safe piping that comes in 10-12mm and is available in Australia just in case I can't get pex pipe?


I think that's all I wanted to ask for now, no doubt I'll be back in a few days with more questions. Thanks in advance guys, and sorry about the seemingly endless wall of text.

long as it's PVC/plastic fittings you can use it just don't use anything copper or metal.
you dont have to use pvc/plastic piping you can use pool hoses or clear tubing and
most lfs should sell smaller filter parts so you can use those also for any diy projects
as far as filtration goes if you can find the right size or pcs u need at your lhs.

don't divide into a C just divide into 3 parts with the middle being biggest and you
can house your betta there in the biggest chamber and you add some live plants
which will act as additional filtration.you won't necessarily need pumps if you do
go with the C sump but it wont hurt to have a couple small pumps just to keep the
water flowing. its only keeping the water more aerated and moving so nothing bad
about it.

also for a small tank like a 4x2x2 your better off just using a large canister like a fx5
and get it done & over with but that's just imo. or if you want a sump i think it would
be better to centralize the all the tanks into one system if you have 3+ tanks and you
can still use the middle chamber for fish/plants and what not.

 

[Kittiee Katt]

Ok, I read through all of this (I often make long posts too, lol) and I think I have a better idea for how you can run a sump...

First, can you please let me know how many tanks you have, and how many of them are/can be drilled for a sump? Next, can you please tell me what kind of options you have around you for larger totes/tubs?

Ok, assuming that you can get a big tub, or possibly a few, I think you will be better of using those as sumps since I recall you have a hard time finding tanks where you live. If you do this, you just need to set up returns to the tanks and overflows to the sump. This can be done with an individual return pump for each tank, but it would be better with one or two large pumps that have valves at each tank to control flow.

Now, as for your "C" setup, I really don't think that will work well enough for a sump for your tank. If you really want to keep Miles (a betta if I recall correctly) in the sump then I think you will be better off using baffles similar to the picture below. This is my 55gal sump for my 220 and the center section will be a refugium that I plan on keeping more fish/inverts in.

View attachment 1213974

I really do think that getting some tubs and setting up a sump or two that all of your tanks run off of will be your best option. This way, you don't lose any of your tanks since they are hard to come by.

Most of the tanks I have are under 150ltrs, so if the 170ltr won't work I assume a 150ltr wouldn't work? However my hubby can get tubs up to 250ltrs from his work so I guess that could work. Bummer on the 'C' shape though, I was so proud of myself when I thought of it lol

I agree, what I did was tee off my return line and bled off some flow to my "estuary" on the ends of my sump so they would have flow and used poret foam to isolate the section from the main sump. Plants and such for mellow home.
Excellent assistant in the picture by the way

Sorry if I sound stupid, but can you please explain that a little more? It made very little sense to me

Also, I'm glad my drawing helped.. Even if it is horrible hahaha

long as it's PVC/plastic fittings you can use it just don't use anything copper or metal.
you dont have to use pvc/plastic piping you can use pool hoses or clear tubing and
most lfs should sell smaller filter parts so you can use those also for any diy projects
as far as filtration goes if you can find the right size or pcs u need at your lhs.

don't divide into a C just divide into 3 parts with the middle being biggest and you
can house your betta there in the biggest chamber and you add some live plants
which will act as additional filtration.you won't necessarily need pumps if you do
go with the C sump but it wont hurt to have a couple small pumps just to keep the
water flowing. its only keeping the water more aerated and moving so nothing bad
about it.

also for a small tank like a 4x2x2 your better off just using a large canister like a fx5
and get it done & over with but that's just imo. or if you want a sump i think it would
be better to centralize the all the tanks into one system if you have 3+ tanks and you
can still use the middle chamber for fish/plants and what not.

Awesome on the piping, not awesome on th 'C' sump.

For novelties sake, what if I went with the 'C' sump and a couple of canisters? Mainly using the canisters as filtration and just kinda using the sump as a "for the sake of it" kinda thing?

Ultimately I want to put Miles in a 6'x1.5'x1' tank but my hubby isn't going for it, I'm hoping that if I can find a very complex way to house him, that I'll be allowed to keep him in the 6', by this time the 'C' sump will be almost done and... I can get another betta!

 

[tomojsg]

Most of the tanks I have are under 150ltrs, so if the 170ltr won't work I assume a 150ltr wouldn't work? However my hubby can get tubs up to 250ltrs from his work so I guess that could work. Bummer on the 'C' shape though, I was so proud of myself when I thought of it lol


Sorry if I sound stupid, but can you please explain that a little more? It made very little sense to me

Also, I'm glad my drawing helped.. Even if it is horrible hahaha


Awesome on the piping, not awesome on th 'C' sump.

For novelties sake, what if I went with the 'C' sump and a couple of canisters? Mainly using the canisters as filtration and just kinda using the sump as a "for the sake of it" kinda thing?

Ultimately I want to put Miles in a 6'x1.5'x1' tank but my hubby isn't going for it, I'm hoping that if I can find a very complex way to house him, that I'll be allowed to keep him in the 6', by this time the 'C' sump will be almost done and... I can get another betta!

you can do the C sump with a canister or two just the design isnt efficient imo.
why not just split the tank in half if u must have a sump and keep the betta in it.
back half can be the sump and front half can be used to house the betta. or just
use the tank to keep the betta in it and get a large canister like a fx5. a fx5 is more
than enough to filter a 120g 4x2x2 tank.

 

[tomojsg]

Kittiee Katt u can even split that in half and he can have a friend.

 

[Kittiee Katt]

you can do the C sump with a canister or two just the design isnt efficient imo.
why not just split the tank in half if u must have a sump and keep the betta in it.
back half can be the sump and front half can be used to house the betta. or just
use the tank to keep the betta in it and get a large canister like a fx5. a fx5 is more
than enough to filter a 120g 4x2x2 tank.

View attachment 1213990

Loving them little pictures.

I realise the 'C' shape isn't efficient, it just seems fun and the pic in my head looks awesome!

Although I couldn't give him a friend in the 170ltr if it was split in half, that's not even 50ltrs per betta which is what Miles has now so its not really an upgrade.. I'm one of those 'my betta needs 80ltrs or more to be happy' people.

Post Script: I'm not looking to argue on betta tank requirements, just saying personally I like my bettas in 80ltrs or more.

 

[tomojsg]

Loving them little pictures.

I realise the 'C' shape isn't efficient, it just seems fun and the pic in my head looks awesome!

Although I couldn't give him a friend in the 170ltr if it was split in half, that's not even 50ltrs per betta which is what Miles has now so its not really an upgrade.. I'm one of those 'my betta needs 80ltrs or more to be happy' people.

Post Script: I'm not looking to argue on betta tank requirements, just saying personally I like my bettas in 80ltrs or more.

just go wipe out your local petsmart or petco during black friday sale lol
then you can get new tanks for dirt cheap! and then it can be...

 

[Kittiee Katt]

just go wipe out your local petsmart or petco during black friday sale lol
then you can get new tanks for dirt cheap! and then it can be...

View attachment 1213995

A few small problems with that... Firstly, I don't have a petco or petsmart... I'm in Tasmania, and Petbarn don't have "sales"...
Secondly, even tanks on sale here are normally expensive... Like, you have no idea!
And most importantly, I'm pushing it trying to get TWO bettas, let alone SIX!!!