API Proper PH 7.5 - phosphate buffer

[Danh]

Does anyone have experience using this???

I have soft water that comes out of the tap at 7.2 or so and gases down slightly to 7.0. With loads of crushed coral in the sump and a fluidized filter with crushed coral the tank tops at 7.4. I do 20% water changes every other day or so and it drops to 7.1. Alkalinity is pretty low around 3-4 and stays that low regardless of adding bag after bag of coral to the sump. I guess its because I'm doing water changes so frequently.

Seems like if I have a buffer to target 7.5 the water changes would make less of a change. Hoping for no change really but 7.4-7.5 would be much better than what I have now.

I don't really understand why FW is so against "Chasing ph" as if it's impossible or something. I started big fw tanks in 2000 and had them for 10 years or so... then more recently I had big reefs for 5 years... and with reefs.... you dose... And IMO corals are more fragile than any fresh water fish.. RO DO water "dosed" or mixed whatever up to 14dkh, 8.3 ph... and then dosing alkalinity and calcium every few hours to keep things as constant as possible - way more than just ph.

I'm feeling like if my 120g is more highly buffered ad at 7.5... A 20% water change won't impact ph at all... Then I can add enough more to keep it buffered. I think 7.5 is high enough for the bio filter and low enough that a 20% water change straight from the tap would be able to hold ph if it was just buffered better.

I've got about $3000 of fish in this tank... I can see they don't love the .3 ph drop from water changes so I want to help... but I also can't make drastic changes. I can see how this works in my 75g first... Trying to make sure I have a good strategy before I go to a 300+.

 

[Danh]

No one has used it before?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I never use buffers per se. So I am no\t help with them. However, I do alter some of my parameters when needed. My tap is 7.0, TDS about 90 ppm recently, up from 83 ppm. I also have well water loaded with CO2 from the tap. About 6.3 when it comes out.

You are talking a lot about pH and nothing re hardness (GH) or TDS (or conductivity ). It is a big myth that pH changes are always hard on fish. Most can handle a bit of a change. I am not suggesting that rift lake fish can live in Altum water or vice versa.

Just so you know this, I keep Altum angels and have for a while, I keep them at ph 6.0 and want the TDS in the 50-60 ppm range. Over the years I have dropped the pH in their tank by 1.0 in a matter of minutes and there was no issue. The issue was the pH drifted too high. I bought my first Altum from a home based seller. I watched him add muriatic acid to a tank into which he had put the digital probe. I watched the pH drop 1.1 in under five minutes.

More often than not, the real issue in parameter changes is TDS/conductivity related. It is related to the ability of a fish to osmoregulate.

Also, you do not mention what species of fish you are keeping. I ask because I am curious about what fish find 7.2 and 7.5 substantially different.

Finally, SW parameters are fairly universal across the globe, at least for the fish most keep in SW tanks. The pH is pretty constant as is the hardness, but temperature varies a lot though. But then most of the worlds salt water bodies are all connected. Nothing could be farther from the truth for FW. I was taught when I was getting into the hobby about 23 years ago that a FW tank was harder to get set up and make stable than a FW tank but once both were established the FW tanka was the harder of the two to keep stable.

Most of us tend to do larger water changed than 20% but only once a week, Some fish need more and some lightly stocked planted tanks can do with less frequent or smaller changes.

There are a few things one can do to raise pH and they will usually mean hardness will rise as well.

Hardening Your Water (Raising GH and/or KH)

The following measurements are approximate; use a test kit to verify you've achieved the intended results. Note that if your water is extremely soft to begin with (1 degree KH or less), you may get a drastic change in pH as the buffer is added.

To raise both GH and KH simultaneously, add calcium carbonate (CaCO3). 1/2 teaspoon per 100 liters of water will increase both the KH and GH by about 1-2 dH. Alternatively, add some sea shells, coral, limestone, marble chips, etc. to your filter.

To raise the KH without raising the GH, add sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), commonly known as baking soda. 1/2 teaspoon per 100 Liters raises the KH by about 1 dH. Sodium bicarbonate drives the pH towards an equilibrium value of 8.2.

I have used baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) in water to raise the GH to simulate the dry season. But I did not want to raise the pH, so I held this to a minimum. I used much more Epsom salt (magnesium) and I ran a filter full of crushed coral overnight on the changing water.

The one problem with baking soda is the sodium. A lot of FW water fish do not like it elevated.

I prefer to change my pH, when I must, not using buffers. I lower mine with muriatic acid. I raise it using crushed coral etc. The amount depends upon whay I need. I also attend weekend fish events and am usually either in the vendor room selling or else doing so from my hotel room. I usually bring tanks and cycled filter for this. Often I will set up a bio-farm to cycle filters. The last time it was 15 filters to go into 8 tanks collectively holding 220 gallons. I did this all in a 40 breeder. I seed bacteria and dose massive amounts of ammonia to get the filters cycled in about 10 days or less.

The last time I had a stall. The reason is that the bacteria use KH and mine was being depleted very fast. I had started with 1 bag of crushed coral in the tank. I fixed the problem by adding two more bags of coral.

So, you may also be able to fix you issue, assuming the fish really need it and your hardness is OK, by doing several things perhaps in combination. One is to use the baking soda, next is to continue using the coral but to increase the amount. The problem is that acid water, below ph 7.0 is what dissolves the coral. You might also need to bump the GH. Since you did not report anything about hardness this may or may not be advisable. I use SeaChem Equilibrium which is intended to raise GH. I am not interested in doing that. But in some tanks with snails, shrimp and plants as well as fish a lot of the minerals get used up rapidly. I add the Equilibrium in smaller amounts than would be used to raise GH to replenish them.

 

[Danh]

Keeping ph low with an acid could be an option... but seems like it would be less stable than trying to buffer it closer to what it is out of my tap.

I want to limit my ph delta through a water change to less than .1. The tank normally runs 7.4 because I run a lot of crushed coral, including in a fluidized reactor. Water comes out at 7.0 to 7.1 and gases to within .1 of that normally. And a 20% water change normally drops my ph from 7.4 to 7.2... But I can also watch my ph drop by that much just due to atmospheric co2 - turning the oven on, kids coming home from school, etc... Which is kinda crazy to think... but it definitely happens. My reef did that too 8.3 to 8.15 or so, even at 13dkh carbonate hardness just due to the kids coming home from school. The reef and this tank are in my living room.... 1000 or though sq feet of area pretty much open which is part of my downstairs and its open to part of the upstairs... and there's a fairly drafty gas log fireplace 20 feet from it.... Leave the door open for a few minutes especially if there's a little breeze and it goes back.

I agree the biggest issues with ph instability are when it spikes... ime that's when you let it get too low from a lack of water changes and then doing a big water change. Then spiking from mid to low 6 to over 7 kills whatever bacteria you producing more ammonia, ammonium unbinds and there isn't enough bacteria to handle it... so you get an ammonia spike too... so rays for example don't like ph changes in the first place.... add a spike in ammonia and they're dead.

7.4 to 7.2 in a 20% water change and I can see their discomfort. They'll live.... but I'd rather limit it more if I can.