Automatic Drip System - Sump Drain Planning

[CHOMPERS]

Brilliant! So, do you have seperate overflows (and also separate returns) for both your wet/dry and your pumping station then? I hadn't really thought about splitting the two functions up, but I like the way you've got yours set up.

Nope, I have only one overflow and one return. The pump station gets its water from the wet/dry. I have a bulkhead fitting about five inches off the bottom in the wet/dry and pump station. This guarantees that my wet/dry pump will never run dry.

Also, do you have your sump pump sitting up off the tank bottom, or is it resting directly on the bottom?

I originally had a small platform for the pump but I have since removed it.

How noisy is it?

My original pump was fairly quiet but was still audiable when it kicked on. It was an older Little Giant with an aluminum body. They tend to corrode through within time. I went though two of them in two years. Rather than spring for a new one with a plastic body, I installed a 1/2 hp. Sta-rite sump pump which is noisy as hell.

How often does it activate?

The time between pumpings is 2-3 hours.

To pump the tank down, the old pump took about 45 seconds and the new one takes about 20.

Is it meant for constant use?

I'd say the Sta-rite is, only because continuous use is what the company does. The Little Giant pumps had seen a lot of use for years before I put them on my system, but I doubt they were rated for continuous duty.

Either way, they don't see continuous use because they are off more than they are on.

The reason that I ask is that the vertical float I'm looking at has a max activation range of 6.5" (~20 gallons in my sump design) and I wouldn't let it drain all the way to the bottom because my normal return pump would then be high and dry. If I separated the two and used a sump, I would be able to have a longer period between draining and filling and I wouldn't have to worry about draining all the way to empty in the pumping station.

6.5" will get you in business. The time between pump cycles is really trivial, as is water levels. I too paid close attention to what I thought was ideal, but in the end the tank is going to fill up again and pump down.

This drain needs to work without any syphoning action at all, correct?

It doesn't matter. If it will tend to syphon, vent the drain line so that it doesn't gurgle.

 

[CHOMPERS]

I also forgot to ask you something. Because you have your wet/dry and your pumping station separate, the level in your wet/dry is determined by the flow of your return pump and overflows (and some by the baffles you have set up), correct? Does that mean that it isn't effected by evaporation at all since that's compensated for by having a separate pumping station? Pretty much your tank and sump water levels stay set and only your station fluctuates? If so, even more reason to separate the two.

Way to innovate!

My wet/dry doesn't have a max level, just a minimum level. My float switch swings higher than the bulkhead fittings between the two tanks which results in the wet/dry's water level to rise above the minimum during the last part of the pump cycle. This doesn't bother me because part of my media is always submerged, part is always "dry", and the middle area gets the best of both worlds.

 

[LiquidWare]

Basically you're describing a simple automatic top-off system for my sump, correct? Meaning, that if the water level in the sump went below the float switch, the incoming water would be activated and keep the sump at a set level? The problem with this is that it is completely the opposite of what I want to do - this wouldn't be a water changing system at all because it would only be accounting for water that evaporates from the system. I would still have to do weekly water changes just like I do now. Now, if it were simply the level of the water in the sump I was concerned about, your idea would work fine (even though it could be done easier that you've described, like adding the incoming water directly to the sump rather than adding a T to the return).

Actualy it does not only top-off, It replaces the water that it taken out by the main pump. Also, the 'T' is on the return FROM your pump to the tank, so instead of having 2 pumps, one that works all the time, and a second that goes on/off, you use that single pump to power everything. Since your maximum head to reach your drain is 4', this can easily be done, as long that the highest point of your return is over the 4' feet of the drain. The more height difference there is between your top water level and your drain, the more pressure you have at the output t your drain. This is good because it can eliminate the need for a presure reducer.

Hope it's clearer now ...

 

[SonsOfLeda]

Actualy it does not only top-off, It replaces the water that it taken out by the main pump. Also, the 'T' is on the return FROM your pump to the tank, so instead of having 2 pumps, one that works all the time, and a second that goes on/off, you use that single pump to power everything. Since your maximum head to reach your drain is 4', this can easily be done, as long that the highest point of your return is over the 4' feet of the drain. The more height difference there is between your top water level and your drain, the more pressure you have at the output t your drain. This is good because it can eliminate the need for a presure reducer.

Hope it's clearer now ...

It is still clear as mud to me. Where would the line that's going to my drain run then if it's not being run by a second pump? I know you said it replaces water taken out by the main pump, but w/o a drain line there isn't any water being taken out by the main pump at all - it's all in a closed loop with the aquarium itself (minus evap). I drew a two second Paint verson of what I've gotten from your posts, but I'm still confused as to what you're saying.

Wait a minute - are you saying that I have an additional overflow in the tank itself that runs to the drain (letting gravity do the work)? I'm not sure this'd work as the tank itself remains at a constant level because of the overflow/sump setup. This would mean that the additional water would essentially be added to the sump (I know, it mixes, but the water level in the sump is what would change w/o a float valve in place). This would only happen though when the water added previously has evaporated in the sump enough to let new water in via the float/solenoid on the incoming water line.

Any way you can add to my picture to try and clear things up? I don't think I'm following what you're getting at. Oh yeah - the picture doesn't include the additional tank overflow that I just mentioned - just the T on the return line...

Hopefully I'm not being too dense here. Thanks!

 

[CHOMPERS]

Actualy it does not only top-off, It replaces the water that it taken out by the main pump. Also, the 'T' is on the return FROM your pump to the tank, so instead of having 2 pumps, one that works all the time, and a second that goes on/off, you use that single pump to power everything. Since your maximum head to reach your drain is 4', this can easily be done, as long that the highest point of your return is over the 4' feet of the drain. The more height difference there is between your top water level and your drain, the more pressure you have at the output t your drain. This is good because it can eliminate the need for a presure reducer.

Hope it's clearer now ...

A picture is worth a thousand words, and to clear this up you should post another thousand words (in picture form).


Btw, Rube Goldberg would be proud

 

[LiquidWare]

Here's my setup ...

I have 2 overflows that go to a drain since i'm a second floor. But, using the output from my drip setup can be used in your setup as the output to your drain, and since it's pressured by your pump, you can use it's head pressure to have waste water taken OUT of your system. Then all the water than is taken out is FILLed back in, including any evaporation, by the float valve in the sump. In the event of a power failure, it stops taking water out.

Am i over a 1000 now ?!

 

[Nic]

i have a similar problem but i have a way to fix it now with my new set up... i have a inground sump container(not in ground but same as they put in floor of basement) that will sit off to side of my pond... i was gonna put a bulkhead in my sump but have a bad feeling when system shuts down and sump fills its gonna drain too much water... so bulkhead goes in pond (you could diy overflow for tank) and drains right to sump pit sump pump with float switch will ensure i have one very green patch of grass or nice flowers... but i have been toying with the idea of pumping right to my pool...

 

[rallysman]

i have a similar problem but i have a way to fix it now with my new set up... i have a inground sump container(not in ground but same as they put in floor of basement) that will sit off to side of my pond... i was gonna put a bulkhead in my sump but have a bad feeling when system shuts down and sump fills its gonna drain too much water... so bulkhead goes in pond (you could diy overflow for tank) and drains right to sump pit sump pump with float switch will ensure i have one very green patch of grass or nice flowers... but i have been toying with the idea of pumping right to my pool...

To use gravity you need a large sump where you have the ability to hold more water while still keeping some of it dry. I measured mine by marking the normal water line, then unplugging the pump. I then measured where the water level was and marked it on the sump. I measured the distance between the 2 lines and drilled the hole that far above the second line.