Breeding P.scalare

Xeno

Peacock Bass
MFK Member
Sep 1, 2014
469
565
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Germany
Hey there,
I know there´s lots of information on the internet covering this topic.
But there are still some unanswered question.
I spent the last 3 month refreshing my college knowledge about genetics.
Especially about the genetics of P.scalare!
The reason why I did this is pretty simple:
I´d like to start breeding Pinoy angelfish.
A rough explanation: Pinoy angelfish are the result of crossing a blue pearl (bp) and a black lace (d+), of course a selection has to take place to make further generations look like the typical Pinoy angelfish.
First problem:
You can´t buy Pinoy angelfish in Germany!
There is a handfull of people who own or/and breed them but the price is about 200 Euro per pair.
And that´s because this type of angelfish is not established in Germany.
You´ll see some stores trying to sell blue smokey/marbled as Pinoy but that´s it.
To be honest:
There are only a few colors/types of angelfish established in Germany.

But you´ll find blue pearls easily and if you´re lucky you may find black lace as well.
So you´ve got the ingredients.. but you have to find someone who teaches you to cook! ;)
So I contacted one of the German breeders and an American breeder to learn more about the genetics of Pinoy angelfish.
Both were willing to share their experiences and knowledge!
So I´ve got the recipe! ;)
What´s missing?
Ah the cooking pot!
Right now I´ve got some empty tanks:
55x55x65cm ~200L
100x40x50cm 200L
80x35x40cm 112L
25x25x30cm ~20L
30x20x20cm 12L
If I´m right the cube would be a good tank for breeding/ to keep the pair.
The 80 and 100cm tanks would be "growout tanks".
And the two very small tanks could be used to hatch the eggs IF the parents couldn´t do it themself.
Ok let´s see.
IF I´m able to get a pair (d+ and bp) I´d keep them in the cube.
IF they would start breeding I´d put the fry in the 80cm tank first when they are free swimming, right?
IF they reach a certain size I´d put them in the 100cm tank till they are sold or put in another tank.
Another German breeder told me that those tanks were way too small to raise a whole bunch of young angelfish.
Well I agree but I don´t really won´t to bring up more than.. let´s say 10 angelfish.
I don´t want to sell them for profit or anything so I don´t need to bring up hudreds of angelfish!
Anyway the first generation of the D+/bp pair would NOT be typicall Pinoy angelfish!
So I´d keep ONE pair of this generation to really get this project going.
The f1 would have got the right genes so some of their fry may be Pinoy angelfish...
From which I´d keep ONE pair to go on breeding with those to "manifest" the wanted color.
Of course I´d need another tank for a new pair but this shouldn´t be a problem.. right now I´ve got 10 tanks and some empty tanks in the garage so.. yeah there is a way to expand!

When we leave to topics of filtration, feeding and so on for now..
I know how to raise fry and angelfish in general
What would you say about this "plan"?
Did I forget some important aspects?
I´d be thankful to get some feedback!
And I´m sorry if there are some spelling mistakes or waord in a wrong context, I´m not a native speaker ;)
 

FMA4ME

Probation Member
Probation Member
Aug 6, 2013
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CA
Hi
Are you aware of discususa? They sell lots of Pinoy Angelfish. Wish I could be more helpful :)
 

Xeno

Peacock Bass
MFK Member
Sep 1, 2014
469
565
115
28
Germany
Hey,
yes I saw their profile on Facebook!
But I´m living Germany so I´d have to import a pair/a group.. which would be very expensive.
I guess the only way to get Pinoy angelfish in Germany is to buy them from one of the few breeders (as I said.. about 200,- per pair) or breed them yourself.
 

Xeno

Peacock Bass
MFK Member
Sep 1, 2014
469
565
115
28
Germany
Hey,
yesterday my angelfish arrived!
3 small "Blue Pearls", one classic "Black Lace" and another dark angelfish which has traits of a "Black Lace" and a "Double Dark".
I could get 2 "Paraiba" as well.
I´ve never seen them live before maybe I´ll setup another 200L tank for those..
 

babers

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Jul 23, 2012
77
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36
WI
A Pinoy angelfish is a D/D pb/pb or D/+ pb/pb. Basically it will have a double dose of Philippine blue gene and either a single or double dose Dark.

There are different kind of Pinoy Angels... There's a Pinoy Paraiba (D/D s/s pb/pb or D/+ s/s pb/pb), Pinoy Ghost (D/D s/+ pb/pb or D/+ s/+ pb/pb), or the regular Pinoy (D/D pb/pb or D/+ pb/pb).

You can definitely use a blue pearl to cross to a black lace. Depending on what genes the parents have, will dictate what kind of babies you will have. Your first generation babies will have a single dose of philippine blue(pb/+). Since you have a black lace parent, the dark gene will show up on some of the babies, while other won't have the dark gene. Pick about a dozen babies that have the dark gene and grow them out. Once they pair up and spawn, then 25 % of the babies will have a double dose philippine blue. One those 25% blues, all angels that are dark will be you Pinoy Angels.

Goodluck on your project!!!
 
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Xeno

Peacock Bass
MFK Member
Sep 1, 2014
469
565
115
28
Germany
Hey,
Oh it's been some years since I posted this thread.
I started reproducing some angels but only a few months later Pinoy angels had been imported and sold to some breeders which of course gave them a headstart leading to Pinoy angels flooding the market dropping the price to below 10 bucks each making it not worth for me to continue breeding.
 
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