Calling all Frontosa keepers

[Caperguy99]

I’m planning a 220 gallon Frontosa colony and want some input from somebody who has kept this species of fish successfully.

If somebody could take a look at my proposed setup and let me know what they think about my chances for success, it would be very appreciated. FYI my normal water parameters are ~7.8 PH, 8 KH, and 17 GH.

I’m planning the following for 8 Frontosa - 2 males and 6 females. I hope to keep these fish for their natural lifespan in this setup. Planning to buy them from a Canadian distributor at whatever size they can be appropriately sexed to ensure a proper ratio - maybe 6”?

- 225 Seapora or 210 Aqueon 72”L x 24”W x 30”H
- 2 FX-6 filters stuffed with Seachem matrix and sponge. Will run Purigen also.
- Twinstar LED B series lightbar 48”
- 2 Eheim Jager 300 watt heaters
- 200 lbs of CaribSea African Cichlid rift lake substrate for ~2 inches of substrate coverage.

- For decor, traditional tanganyika style stacked stones. I’ll bury some HomeDepot light diffuser under the substrate to distribute the weight and make sure I have some stable caves and hides.

Is there anything big that I’m missing here? Having never kept Africans, I find myself going back and forth on the lighting and substrate. If anyone has any other suggestions or recommendations, I’m all ears!

 

[ken31cay]

I don't see anything wrong with your plan so long as they are domestically raised Frontosa. In the case of wild caught Frontosa then it is possible you may need to maintain a higher water pH in the tank. That has been the case for the various wild caught specimens I've kept over the years.

The only other detail has to do with my personal preference; many would say a six foot tank is fine for what you're doing. But to my personal liking, I would recommend at least an eight foot long aquarium for keeping a colony of eight Frontosa long term. Though they should be fine in there for the first year or two.

Good luck with the project and I hope you enjoy.

 

[Caperguy99]

The only other detail has to do with my personal preference; many would say a six foot tank is fine for what you're doing. But to my personal liking, I would recommend at least an eight foot long aquarium for keeping a colony of eight Frontosa long term. Though they should be fine in there for the first year or two.

Good luck with the project and I hope you enjoy.

Thank you for this. It’s the sort of thing I wanted to hear.

Is there any amount you would keep together long-term in a 220, or do you not recommend any group smaller than 8? I really hate the idea of having a tank that looks stuffed full of too-big fish - so if a front colony doesn’t suit my purposes I might rethink the whole project and try out something else.

 

[neutrino]

My background is I kept them about 25 years and did some breeding, primarily C. gibberosa "kapampa" but also C. frontosa "Burundi" and C. frontosa "Kigoma." I was a mod/admin for years on what used to be a Cyphotilapia dedicated forum with thousands of members (gone now). My opinion:

For a 6 ft tank 8 is fine, assuming you're starting a group of juveniles, but it will be crowded for that many adults. If you get them at around 6 inches, it's possible to sex them but easy to get it wrong, some individuals can be ambiguous enough for even experienced keepers to get it wrong now and then. Meanwhile, just to give you an idea, starting at roughly an inch, typical growth rates for me were like this: Males 6-8 inches in a year (I had one get 9 inches in a year), females smaller. Males add another 2-3 inches in the 2nd year. Males add another inch or two 3rd year, then growth slows down, then slows way down after about 5. Males commonly reach 11,12 inches, some larger. Most females closer to 9 inches, but can be smaller or larger. This was consistent for me, including fry from my own groups, but they grow slower for some people.

Ratio: Ime temperament varies considerably by individual in these fish and it very much depends on the particular group. I've seen a lot of different scenarios, but a few are: Some groups worked with more than one male, some did not. I had groups with a benevolent and superior alpha male that kept order no matter the other males in the group, had a group where the alpha and beta were competitive and closely matched and got into some spectacular tank shaking tussles (yet somehow never damaged each other), and had some in between. I had a group where the male kept mostly to himself, except to spawn, while the females constantly fussed with each other (one was especially mean), and in order to calm things down and start getting successful spawns I had to tinker around until I got it down to the male and two of the milder females.

A classic recommendation if you want to end up with a breeding group: Grow out 10 or so juveniles and out of the ten you should get both males and females. No guarantees on the exact ratio, it could be 5/5 and I've seen it be 2/8 (not typical but it can happen) but it's usually enough of each to work out a breeding group. Imo this is about the closest thing to a 'rule' that usually works. Which reminds me-- females can spawn starting about 18 months, males take longer, 3 years is fairly common, though not a rule.

 

[Caperguy99]

My background is I kept them about 25 years and did some breeding, primarily C. gibberosa "kapampa" but also C. frontosa "Burundi" and C. frontosa "Kigoma." I was a mod/admin for years on what used to be a Cyphotilapia dedicated forum with thousands of members (gone now).

Thank you so much for the response. This is exactly the sort of practical experience I’ve been looking for. I appreciate you taking the time to give me that information.

In your opinion, is there any group of Frontosa that can be kept in a 220 for life? Or would you recommend not keeping a group less than 8 together for that long?

Hearing from yourself and some of the other responders, I’m thinking I may unfortunately need to rethink my plan of keeping this fish.

 

[neutrino]

In your opinion, is there any group of Frontosa that can be kept in a 220 for life? Or would you recommend not keeping a group less than 8 together for that long?

As long as you have a group that gets along reasonably well and you don't overcrowd them, the numbers aren't critical and you could keep them for life. There's not really a hard and fast minimum number for a group, anything from 3 and up is common-- usually not pairs because they're not pairing fish; not completely impossible, but it takes a very laid back male. While it's probably been done, imo 8 would be crowded in a 6 ft tank and I wouldn't recommend it, unless (maybe) it was 3 ft wide. Ime they don't like to be crowded-- but maybe up to 6 if mostly females and the group gets along reasonably well. It's hard to make rules because their temperament can vary so much, but something like three 12 inch males, plus several females is a lot to ask in a 6 ft tank.

...Contrary to some opinions, they don't just sit in one spot all day, at least none of mine did and I raised multiple groups, so they do need room. They're certainly not the most active fish, but mine were all over the tank and ime they have active moods and quiet moods. The one time I had one do nothing but sit and sulk it was one of the first ones I'd had. I didn't know that much yet and it wasn't happy by itself in a tank with haps and peacocks. It perked up after I got a couple more and put them in a tank together.

 

[ken31cay]

Very good info from neutrino .

 

[Caperguy99]

As long as you have a group that gets along reasonably well and you don't overcrowd them, the numbers aren't critical and you could keep them for life. There's not really a hard and fast minimum number for a group, anything from 3 and up is common-- usually not pairs because they're not pairing fish; not completely impossible, but it takes a very laid back male. While it's probably been done, imo 8 would be crowded in a 6 ft tank and I wouldn't recommend it, unless (maybe) it was 3 ft wide. Ime they don't like to be crowded-- but maybe up to 6 if mostly females and the group gets along reasonably well. It's hard to make rules because their temperament can vary so much, but something like three 12 inch males, plus several females is a lot to ask in a 6 ft tank.

Alright, so if I’m reading you right - a set up that looks something like a single male and four females could work for life, size wise, in a 220 as long as everyone gets on like gang busters. But still might require some mixing and matching, depending on the personalities of the fish involved.

Is this correct?

 

[neutrino]

Alright, so if I’m reading you right - a set up that looks something like a single male and four females could work for life, size wise, in a 220 as long as everyone gets on like gang busters. But still might require some mixing and matching, depending on the personalities of the fish involved.

Is this correct?

Sounds about right. Some people interested in breeding like to keep two males as insurance in case the alpha doesn't turn out to be such a great breeder. Happens sometimes. Kind of a complicated species to breed in a way, some groups breed like clockwork with no issues at all and some are a headache trying to figure them out. They kind of have a mind of their own, not like some species where you just put x number of males and females together and add water lol.

 

[Caperguy99]

Sounds about right. Some people interested in breeding like to keep two males as insurance in case the alpha doesn't turn out to be such a great breeder. Happens sometimes. Kind of a complicated species to breed in a way, some groups breed like clockwork with no issues at all and some are a headache trying to figure them out. They kind of have a mind of their own, not like some species where you just put x number of males and females together and add water lol.

To be honest, I’m not particularly fussed about breeding. If it happens it happens, but I’m not out seeking it out.

Thanks again for your help - I think I’ll move ahead with the reduced number of fish, as you suggest. I’ll post pics once the whole setup is up and running.