Comparison pictures of northern and southern forms of Scorpion Mud turtles

[Mahlerfan]

I have two forms of Kinosternon scorpioides scorpioides. The southern form used to be considered as the subspecies Kinosternon scorpioides seriei but I believe it is now thought to be part of K. s. scorpioides. They look different to me and with the way names are continually changing, I have not mixed them together. Below are photos of males of each form.

Carapace of northern form


Carapace of southern form


Plastron of northern form


Plastron of southern form


Head of (unwilling) northern form


Head of southern form


Size comparison between two adult males of both forms (northern form on right, southern on left)


I'll take comparison photos of females of each form and post them later.

 

[AFRO-thunder]

Nice comparison! I have seen the seriei pop up in the trade lately, seems like Paraguay opened some doors...
The scorpioides complex is not fully understood by scientists yet. It's not only between the southern South American populations and the ones from the Guyanas, there's also a debate whether Kinosternon cruentatum is a subspecies of K. scorpioides or not.

 

[Vicious_Fish]

Great photo comparison.Thanks for sharing.

The scorpioides complex is not fully understood by scientists yet. It's not only between the southern South American populations and the ones from the Guyanas, there's also a debate whether Kinosternon cruentatum is a subspecies of K. scorpioides or not.

I know what you mean. Depending on where you read they refer to Red Cheeks as a sub species or it's own separate species.

They seem to be very common over seas but I can not find a male Red Cheek to pair up with my female to save my life.

 

[AFRO-thunder]

Yeah, red cheeks are really common in EU because they breed like rats. A friend of mine got rid of his group because he had over 30 hatchlings each year and didnt know where to place them.

 

[Vicious_Fish]

That's what I hear. It's a shame not many people over here in the US breed them. I haven't seen one for sale in almost 2 years.

 

[Mahlerfan]

AFRO-thunder, thanks. Yes, your right Kinosternon scorpioides is not well understood at present. Personally I'm hoping that the Red Cheek Mud gets full species status, as that subspecies has a lot of variation throughout it's range. I'm including a couple of photos of another member of the K. scorpioides complex that I'm keeping - K. s. abogulare, the White Throat Mud turtle. These are of one of my females.







Vicious_fish, thanks. Red Cheeks used to be so common. I'll keep an eye out for anyone that is selling them and let you know.

 

[Vicious_Fish]

Vicious_fish, thanks. Red Cheeks used to be so common. I'll keep an eye out for anyone that is selling them and let you know.

Sounds awesome! I'd love to take a crack at breeding them.

Here's my 3 year old female.