The theory is interesting, and I take no issue with academic discussion, comparing genomes, thought experiments etc. Where it feels to me like a line is being crossed is by trying to do a physical experiment on involuntary subjects and forcing them to "adapt" (try to survive) something they aren't forced into by nature but by man. It seems unnecessary and arrogant and reminds me of a similar discussion on here about forcing predator fish to eat vegan food sources.
Creating Terrestrialized Polypterus : A proposal for a long term experiment in line breeding.
- Thread starter Zmouvek
- Start date
Looking for an ethical way to feed live foods but interested in keeping bichirs on land…. Seems pretty “ethical” 
I just dont see what it would prove as far as the water-land transition goes. The fish would almost certainly try to crawl between puddles trying to find a more suitable environment. Highly unlikely its going to pitch a tent and camp out on the beach all of the sudden just cause it cant find a good home.
Now, if you were to create an expansive paludarium where the fish would have access to some "land" as well as having a safe and hospitable aquatic environment to live in (not just "ultra-shallow" puddles) then you might be onto something. Observing the fish traveling on land voluntarily for some other reason besides imminent death by dehydration would be a good start imo...if it ever happened. Plus this way everyone doesnt get all pissy about fish torture and whatnot.
One is lifestock servicing, the other is scienceLooking for an ethical way to feed live foods but interested in keeping bichirs on land…. Seems pretty “ethical”
It's a more ethical idea than what the Mexicans did in their study, repeatedly cutting the bichir's pectoral fins off with nail clippers to see how they regrow, I just think it would be a cool science experiment, and it's not like keeping bichirs in a land setup, where they are always moist, is highly unethical. There is no active torture going on, maybe some environmental stress.
Kinda what im talking about, a small paludarium, with water ranging between 2 Cm deep and 2 MM Deep, kept very humid, these bichirs would live their lives, then would be tested in their walking abilities, the most successful would then breed.
Most bichirs stand taller than 2 cm full grown - 2 cm deep is hardly a suitable environment and even smaller than a “small puddle.” 2 mm and you might as well not even have water
You basically missed everything
Backfromthedead
stated, which was a large pauladarium with a natural shoreline fish could choose to go on (which they wouldn’t unless absolutely forced to).
The experiment you’re talking about would work if you had a few million years to spare and tinker with evolution, but most people don’t really have that ability.
This whole thing requires a gradual change that animals evolve to respond to, not being tossed into an inhospitable environment and being asked to survive.
You basically missed everything
Backfromthedead
stated, which was a large pauladarium with a natural shoreline fish could choose to go on (which they wouldn’t unless absolutely forced to).The experiment you’re talking about would work if you had a few million years to spare and tinker with evolution, but most people don’t really have that ability.
This whole thing requires a gradual change that animals evolve to respond to, not being tossed into an inhospitable environment and being asked to survive.
Well I pulled the 2MM directly from the methodolgy of the Standen Study, I was just thinking 2CM sounded like a round number it is 10 times that! not one for metric! In inches, I would think a good depth would be something about 4-5 Inches, a poultry amount, but still enough for a bichir to be comfy, then in other areas it thins out to 2MM, so the bichirs spend alot of time on land.Most bichirs stand taller than 2 cm full grown - 2 cm deep is hardly a suitable environment and even smaller than a “small puddle.” 2 mm and you might as well not even have water
You basically missed everything
The experiment you’re talking about would work if you had a few million years to spare and tinker with evolution, but most people don’t really have that ability.
This whole thing requires a gradual change that animals evolve to respond to, not being tossed into an inhospitable environment and being asked to survive.
In the case of this proposed experimental paludarium, i would want to replicate pools of different depths, between a few inches and a couple feet. You should also be able to control the water level so you could choose to inundate the entire tank or reduce the water level to expose the various isthmus between the pools. In a suitably large enclosure you should be able to observe the fishes behavior dependent on water level.
In my honest opinion it wouldnt be worth the effort though. Im pretty sure the bichirs would almost certainly favor the deeper, darker parts of the tank nearly all of the time and you would see very little voluntary treks across the desert. Im not very experienced with them though. Could be fun if youre a diehard bichir fan and have the time and resources to set something like that up.
In my honest opinion it wouldnt be worth the effort though. Im pretty sure the bichirs would almost certainly favor the deeper, darker parts of the tank nearly all of the time and you would see very little voluntary treks across the desert. Im not very experienced with them though. Could be fun if youre a diehard bichir fan and have the time and resources to set something like that up.
Sadly I am the former only, and have not the latter. :C
