Cycling and PH

[Pazzoman]

Hey Everyone,

So far I have had my tank cycling for almost 3 weeks. Currently I have ammonia around 2-4ppm still, nitrite around 2-5 ppm and I do see slight nitrates. I been following Dr. Tims one and only recipe, originally was using stability, but some members said it wasn't a good idea. I know its a long process usually, but my concern is my PH. I have driftwood in tank, so I assume thats why my PH went down to 6. I have been adding seachem neutral regulator in hopes it would stay at 7, but it would always end up going back down. So now Im at the point is it best to not try to fight keeping PH for cycling or continue adding it until it stabilizes? And if its best to not mess with the PH while cycling, after completed should I just keep it at 6?

 

[neutrino]

Can't comment on Dr Tim cycling, never tried it, but ammonia can lower pH-- rather than me trying to explain it:
https://www.troutintheclassroom.org/technical-information/aquarium-maintenance/ammonia-explained/

The pH of Ammonia
Pure ammonia actually has a basic or alkaline pH. In theory, ammonia should raise the pH of an aquarium. However, virtually all processes in the aquarium that produce ammonia, as well as the breakdown of ammonia, produce hydrogen cations. Since pH is the negative log of hydrogen cation concentration, increasing this lowers the pH, negating the mildly basic pH of ammonia. While ammonia has a basic pH, the processes that create it in an aquarium produce enough hydrogen ions to overcome this and lower the pH. Sources of Ammonia-- Ammonia comes from several biological processes in the aquarium. Most of these processes come down to breaking down proteins. In a fish’s metabolism, they break down proteins from the food they eat and produce toxic ammonia as a byproduct. This releases ammonia, and hydrogen ions. Since ammonia is a weak base, the hydrogen ions have a stronger effect on pH, so this process ultimately lowers the pH. Rotting plant and animal matter, as well decaying fish food, also undergo a similar process that produces ammonia and hydrogen ions. The Ammonia Cycle In a healthy aquarium-- bacteria break ammonia down into less toxic forms. A first set of bacteria break ammonia down into nitrite. A second group of bacteria turn the nitrite into nitrate. The various bacteria also release even more hydrogen ions throughout this process which lowers pH. The process typically takes several weeks to a month to establish in new aquariums. Without this process, toxic ammonia would continue to build up until the water became toxic to fish.

Also, low pH slows down cycling and, as I understand it, the bacteria need the carbonate (KH) to power the process. So, if it was me I'd add enough baking soda to keep pH over 7 if it's dropping below that level. (keeping things simple though there's a little more to it, including total ammonia vs toxic ammonia)

 

[Trouser Bark]

Don't know about Dr Tim but I have adjusted pH a bit in years past. There's an unusual effect that you may want to familiarize yourself with and it is that you can add various buffering compounds to move your pH up or down and there will appear to be a linear effect initially (such that you add 2 tbsp and see a change and add two more and see an identical pH value change).

That works for a bit and then the water reaches it's ability to absorb more buffering compound. Once you pass that point you'll see hell break loose in your water column, particularly w/ regard to power of hydrogen. If at some point you see what seemed to be reliable change suddenly become dynamic and unpredictable know that you're not going crazy.

 

[Azedenkae]

Hey Everyone,

So far I have had my tank cycling for almost 3 weeks. Currently I have ammonia around 2-4ppm still, nitrite around 2-5 ppm and I do see slight nitrates. I been following Dr. Tims one and only recipe, originally was using stability, but some members said it wasn't a good idea. I know its a long process usually, but my concern is my PH. I have driftwood in tank, so I assume thats why my PH went down to 6. I have been adding seachem neutral regulator in hopes it would stay at 7, but it would always end up going back down. So now Im at the point is it best to not try to fight keeping PH for cycling or continue adding it until it stabilizes? And if its best to not mess with the PH while cycling, after completed should I just keep it at 6?

Your pH should always be what you intend for it to be long term.

Different nitrifiers are adapted to different pH. Some are strictly acidophilic, growing only at a pH of 4-5.5, for example. So it is not like nitrification is strictly inhibited by a low pH or anything like that.

Instead, you want to just set the pH to where you want it to be long term as that will result in growth of the nitrifiers best suited for your tank (hopefully), or at least enough nitrifiers not optimally suited to your pH but in high enough numbers to carry out enough nitrification anyways.

If your pH can't remain stable, that's a different story, then you should look into long term buffers instead. I.e. not the chemicals, rather things like say crushed coral.

 

[Pazzoman]

Thank you I appreciate everyones feedback. I'll keep adding seachem neutral regulator in hopes it starts to stabilize. I'll try to get my hands on a more permenant method of raising the PH like crush coral. Just want to be careful to not over dose it.

 

[Something Fishy Here]

Just out of curiousity what fish are you wanting to keep? If you let your source water sit in a bucket for a day or 2 what is the ph reading on it?

 

[Pazzoman]

Just out of curiousity what fish are you wanting to keep? If you let your source water sit in a bucket for a day or 2 what is the ph reading on it?

Kind of hard to tell. The tubes in the first picture is my Aquarium PH vs Tap Water PH left for a few days and in the next picture it’s my Tap water PH left for a few days vs fresh out of the tap. I plan on keeping Angelfish, some kind of dither fish, possibly some kind of loaches as well as Delhizi bichir. However the angelfish is 100%

 

[Glen70]

Hi mate

I provided this bit of information to help another person on this site that was having trouble with ammonia and low PH.

" From what you have explained there are two things happening that are linked to the nitrification process.

Firstly the nitrifying bacteria destroy 7.14 mg of CaC03 alkalinity per 1mg of ammoniam Ion oxidised,. Alkalinity is what keeps the ph stable, but the neutralisation of the hydrogen Ions produced during the nitrification process reduces the CaC03. This in turn is what has reduced your pH (insufficient alkalinity CaC03)

Secondly the nitrification process will all but stall at ph of 6 resulting in the ammonia you are seeing.

The addition of a ph buffer such as sodium Bicarbonate will add much needed alkalinity to maintain the desired ph level "

Hope this makes some sense.

 

[duanes]

OP you are about half way thru the cycling process.
Have patience and keep doing what you are doing.
It is very normal to see pH drop little during cycling, but your drop is not concerning.
If you want to add neutral regulator, or a little baking soda (Arm n Hammer) to neutralize it, that will be fine.
Regulator and baking soda do the same thing, but at a much different cost
The pH of your tap water (7.2ish) will be fine for keeping common aquarium strain angels, and the other fish you mention..
Just don't go out and spend a lot of money on wild caught or "Altums", your pH is too high for them

 

[Pazzoman]

Thank you everyone for the responses, so I will continue adding Neutral Regulator, I was worried the constant PH swings would be an issue for growing bacteria. Didn't realize ammonia would bring down the PH that much, figured it was pretty much solely on the drift wood I have in the tank lowering my PH.