Designs for 400g DIY tank...I'd like your comments!

[Cyclop3000]

Hey all. I know this is a long post but please bear with me  I am currently in the planning stage for my next tank, which will house Arthur my Mbu puffer for a while. I’m aiming at around 400g, square plywood tank with 2 glass panels. Here’s a quick sketch of the tank dimensions (excuse the crude sketch, made in MSPaint at work…):

The tank will be 4.5’x 4.5’x 2.5’, with two glass panels of 4’x 2’ located on two sides, since it will be placed in a corner of my living room. I am planning to use a Pond Shield wash on my plywood, then a good lining of Pond Shield, using fiberglass tape on all joints. I am currently waiting for my Pond Shield samples to make a few tests…THANKS BUTCH !!

For the viewing panels I planned ½” tempered glass. Now I’m not too sure if I should be using ½” or ¾” for the glass, I’d like some advice on this… And should I decide to go for acrylic, what thickness/grade would I need? (although I dislike acrylic, for a lot of reasons already discussed around here).

The plywood used will be ¾” exterior grade, and I am sparing you the details of construction for now, I’m still in the early stages. Let’s just say I like my tanks very sturdy

Here’s another quick sketch of a detail cut where the glass will meet the wood on the side of the tank. Two different options here, one with an additional wood length to strengthen the corners, and one without. Am I missing something here?

So that’s the design so far, any comments/questions/suggestions are VERY welcome, I am looking for advice here 

I still didn’t put any thought into filtration and plumbing, but I’m aiming for a wet/dry sump over the tank (or under, still not decided), with many fail safes since electricity at my place often flickers (I live in a corn field, far from the city). I could use another custom plywood tank build in the same manner (but with no viewing panels) for the sump, or an old 30 or 50 gallons I have lying around.

Here are a few questions I have, maybe you guys can answer that:

- Glass thickness, ½” or ¾” ?
- Glass finish, buffed or not? I was told by my supplier that the tempered glass does not have shard edges, he said he could only grind the corners a bit for me, without doing the whole buffing thing, which is very expensive. Any thoughts?
- Should I add a steel frame to the viewing panels, or just silicone the glass over the hole like on my detail sketch?
- How much overlap would you guys recommend for the glass? I’m looking at 2-3” overlap over the plywood, all around the glass panels…would that be enough?
- See that corner where both glass panels meet? I keep asking myself if it will be strong enough to hold. I mean the corner will basically be a couple beams meeting together, with the plywood and glass resting on there (and probably a steel corner over it), but still I’m thinking this might be a flaw in my design. Any advice? Comforting? LOL
- I was thinking of adding a square length of wood on each corner (like on option 2) to both strengthen the design and hold the glass snuggly on each side. What do you guys think, will it help?
- Joining the wood; what would you use to join the pieces of wood together? I was thinking screws and carpenter glue, would that work? Anything I should know here…maybe stainless steel screws?
- Filtration; what size wet/dry sump would I need here? Never built a sump before, will be my first attempt
- Drilling; what could I use as bulkheads (those connectors that hook up in the holes on my tank…hope I got the right name for those lol)? I was thinking something like pool bulkheads, they sell them in kits not too expensive. Then I would hook up my pipes on there to the pump and sump. Would that work?
- Anybody know of a good custom tank builder in Canada (or even in the US, since I just want a quote)? I’d like to compare my materials price list to a custom tank of this size (acrylic I guess?), just to see if it’s worth all the effort.
- One more thing…I got this perfect location for that tank in my house, but it would be about 3’ from my fireplace in the living room. I’m wondering if the occasional heat would be a problem, we use it a few times a week during the cold months of winter. Anybody has any experience?

Thanks all for reading, hoping for your suggestions and advice!!

 

[Cyclop3000]

Come on guys, 26 views and no replies? I need your input !!

 

[fishdance]

I will give you my opinions on the stuff I am confident about;

- Glass thickness, ½” or ¾” ?

12mm is fine for a 75cm deep all glass tank so it will be okay for yours too. If you have the budget or worry or expect to have some big flighty fish then get 19mm.

- Glass finish, buffed or not? I was told by my supplier that the tempered glass does not have shard edges, he said he could only grind the corners a bit for me, without doing the whole buffing thing, which is very expensive.

I would use ordinary float glass. Tempered (safety) is stronger but not necessary. You will never see the edges so theres no need to grind it. You can make a plastic border or cover with silicon if your worried fish will cut themselves.

- Should I add a steel frame to the viewing panels, or just silicone the glass over the hole like on my detail sketch?

No need for steel frames if your wooden structure is sturdy enough. You seem confident on the build so I assume its not going to flex.

- How much overlap would you guys recommend for the glass? I’m looking at 2-3” overlap over the plywood, all around the glass panels…would that be enough?

This overlap is sufficient.

- See that corner where both glass panels meet? I keep asking myself if it will be strong enough to hold. I mean the corner will basically be a couple beams meeting together, with the plywood and glass resting on there (and probably a steel corner over it), but still I’m thinking this might be a flaw in my design. Any advice? Comforting? LOL
- I was thinking of adding a square length of wood on each corner (like on option 2) to both strengthen the design and hold the glass snuggly on each side. What do you guys think, will it help?

Unable to comment without confidence here but the second method with internal brace has to be stronger. It might be good to stop fish getting caught in the corners too and eliminate the glass edge grinding issue you worried about earlier. I am unsure if the steel corner will be anything more than cosmetic dressing if attached to outside.

Filtration shouldnt be left till the last minute but isnt too hard. What about lighting?

 

[wizzin]

Cool idea! I'm no expert, but I can give you my thoughts on what I've learned. comments below in red

Hey all. I know this is a long post but please bear with me  I am currently in the planning stage for my next tank, which will house Arthur my Mbu puffer for a while. I’m aiming at around 400g, square plywood tank with 2 glass panels. Here’s a quick sketch of the tank dimensions (excuse the crude sketch, made in MSPaint at work&#8230:

The tank will be 4.5’x 4.5’x 2.5’, with two glass panels of 4’x 2’ located on two sides, since it will be placed in a corner of my living room. I am planning to use a Pond Shield wash on my plywood, then a good lining of Pond Shield, using fiberglass tape on all joints. I am currently waiting for my Pond Shield samples to make a few tests…THANKS BUTCH !!

For the viewing panels I planned ½” tempered glass. Now I’m not too sure if I should be using ½” or ¾” for the glass, I’d like some advice on this… And should I decide to go for acrylic, what thickness/grade would I need? (although I dislike acrylic, for a lot of reasons already discussed around here).

The plywood used will be ¾” exterior grade, and I am sparing you the details of construction for now, I’m still in the early stages. Let’s just say I like my tanks very sturdy

Here’s another quick sketch of a detail cut where the glass will meet the wood on the side of the tank. Two different options here, one with an additional wood length to strengthen the corners, and one without. Am I missing something here?

So that’s the design so far, any comments/questions/suggestions are VERY welcome, I am looking for advice here 

I still didn’t put any thought into filtration and plumbing, but I’m aiming for a wet/dry sump over the tank (or under, still not decided), with many fail safes since electricity at my place often flickers (I live in a corn field, far from the city). I could use another custom plywood tank build in the same manner (but with no viewing panels) for the sump, or an old 30 or 50 gallons I have lying around.

Here are a few questions I have, maybe you guys can answer that:

- Glass thickness, ½” or ¾” ? 1/2" at that height should be fine. I prefer tempered only for safety sake. It's stronger and if it fails, it doesn't create daggers. My best preference is tempered/laminated glass. 2 panes of tempered 1/4" glass. That way, there is redundancy, and if it fails, the plastic film in the center holds the shattered piece together. Thik car windshield.
- Glass finish, buffed or not? I was told by my supplier that the tempered glass does not have shard edges, he said he could only grind the corners a bit for me, without doing the whole buffing thing, which is very expensive. Any thoughts? don't buff it. If it's tempered, it will have the edges "eased".
- Should I add a steel frame to the viewing panels, or just silicone the glass over the hole like on my detail sketch? IMO, go with either inside bracing like in your option 2 sketch, or go with a steel frame, but not both. IMO, the wood framed inside bracing would be fine if it's attached correctly.
- How much overlap would you guys recommend for the glass? I’m looking at 2-3” overlap over the plywood, all around the glass panels…would that be enough?2" would be fine
- See that corner where both glass panels meet? I keep asking myself if it will be strong enough to hold. I mean the corner will basically be a couple beams meeting together, with the plywood and glass resting on there (and probably a steel corner over it), but still I’m thinking this might be a flaw in my design. Any advice? Comforting? LOL I would consider a steel angle here, and most importantly would be a diagonal brace from that corner back to it's opposite corner at top and bottom.
- I was thinking of adding a square length of wood on each corner (like on option 2) to both strengthen the design and hold the glass snuggly on each side. What do you guys think, will it help? not 100% sure on what you mean here, but if I understand, you'd have a square "cap" on the top of the corner post? I think, again, a brace would be more important.
- Joining the wood; what would you use to join the pieces of wood together? I was thinking screws and carpenter glue, would that work? Anything I should know here…maybe stainless steel screws? liquid nails and screws baby!
- Filtration; what size wet/dry sump would I need here? Never built a sump before, will be my first attempt not the expert here though i've heard 10% should be fine under normal stocking.
- Drilling; what could I use as bulkheads (those connectors that hook up in the holes on my tank…hope I got the right name for those lol)? I was thinking something like pool bulkheads, they sell them in kits not too expensive. Then I would hook up my pipes on there to the pump and sump. Would that work? http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_bulkheads.php
- Anybody know of a good custom tank builder in Canada (or even in the US, since I just want a quote)? I’d like to compare my materials price list to a custom tank of this size (acrylic I guess?), just to see if it’s worth all the effort.
- One more thing…I got this perfect location for that tank in my house, but it would be about 3’ from my fireplace in the living room. I’m wondering if the occasional heat would be a problem, we use it a few times a week during the cold months of winter. Anybody has any experience? i went with concrete and glass because of the wood shrinkage/expandage factor. I dont' know if in your case that the fireplace will attribute to that on a meaningful level, but just consider the structural properties of wood while building, which it looks like you've already considered.

Thanks all for reading, hoping for your suggestions and advice!!

 

[Cyclop3000]

Ah, thanks to Fishdance and Wizzin for the replies, I feel more confident now

I'm glad to hear 12mm glass will be enough, you see 19mm is 2x the price of the 12mm ! But I think i'll stick to tempered, for even more piece of mind.

Fishdance: I have to be honest I didn't think of lightning yet, since it's not an absolute necessity i'll keep this for the end. But in my mind I see hanging boxes over the tank, with an acrylic top on the actual tank. When my puffer begs for food he makes quite some waves in the water, so I wouldn't want my floor all wet So neon boxes hanging from the ceiling, that's the plan.

Wizzin: I think the diagonal braces is a good idea, but how would you go about designing them? They need to hold the corners IN, right? so you'd stick it on top of the tank, glued and screwed to both corners from above the tank? I just can't get my mind around a good design for this...

As well, you said "IMO, the wood framed inside bracing would be fine if it's attached correctly"...what is correct for you? You suggested liquid nails and screws, would that be enough? I was planning on using carpenter glue everywhere, with screws from the outside of the tank into the corner piece. would that work? I'll try a quick sketch to illustrate this...

Oh and what is liquid nails ? some type of glue?

Thanks again for your help!

 

[wizzin]

Ah, thanks to Fishdance and Wizzin for the replies, I feel more confident now

I'm glad to hear 12mm glass will be enough, you see 19mm is 2x the price of the 12mm ! But I think i'll stick to tempered, for even more piece of mind.

Fishdance: I have to be honest I didn't think of lightning yet, since it's not an absolute necessity i'll keep this for the end. But in my mind I see hanging boxes over the tank, with an acrylic top on the actual tank. When my puffer begs for food he makes quite some waves in the water, so I wouldn't want my floor all wet So neon boxes hanging from the ceiling, that's the plan.

Wizzin: I think the diagonal braces is a good idea, but how would you go about designing them? They need to hold the corners IN, right? so you'd stick it on top of the tank, glued and screwed to both corners from above the tank? I just can't get my mind around a good design for this...

As well, you said "IMO, the wood framed inside bracing would be fine if it's attached correctly"...what is correct for you? You suggested liquid nails and screws, would that be enough? I was planning on using carpenter glue everywhere, with screws from the outside of the tank into the corner piece. would that work? I'll try a quick sketch to illustrate this...

Oh and what is liquid nails ? some type of glue?

Thanks again for your help!

for the diagonal brace, it's most important at the bottom actually. I guess execution of it depends on the material. If it's steel, I think you'll need someone to fabricate the whole assembly. If it's wood, you could just glue and screw, but I'd think the corner piece for that needs to be a pretty "beefy" piece of wood. Say a 4"x4" for the sake of argument.

Looking over the pics again, I'd also suggest using 2x4's as the frame for the glass. I'm not sure that 3/4" ply is going to be enough to hold the glass back. I know that in big box tanks built out of 2x and plywood, the lumber behind the ply provides the structure, and the ply only provides the "skin" of the tank. I wouldn't rely on plywood for structure anywhere.

 

[wizzin]

google my friend.... http://www.liquidnails.com/home.do

 

[Cyclop3000]

Yep I didn't put the outside frame for the plywood box, but think of it like the frame "outside" the plywood box. And window openings will be dealt with in the same manner as houses are built, with a frame all around.

My Civil Engineering diploma has to be of some use after all eh! LOL

Ok I remember seeing Liquid Nails in the store, good idea I think i'll use it everywhere I join wood, instead of carpenter glue

I was thinking of the bottom plywood...a friend of mine had a 12mm glass tank, and the bottom was actually two 10mm glasses. Now it makes me wonder if I should double the bottom of the box. What's your take on this?

Thanks a lot wizzin for all the help !

 

[wizzin]

Yep I didn't put the outside frame for the plywood box, but think of it like the frame "outside" the plywood box. And window openings will be dealt with in the same manner as houses are built, with a frame all around.

My Civil Engineering diploma has to be of some use after all eh! LOL

Ok I remember seeing Liquid Nails in the store, good idea I think i'll use it everywhere I join wood, instead of carpenter glue

I was thinking of the bottom plywood...a friend of mine had a 12mm glass tank, and the bottom was actually two 10mm glasses. Now it makes me wonder if I should double the bottom of the box. What's your take on this?

Thanks a lot wizzin for all the help !

for the bottom, just remember that the most force is on the bottom of the tank. All of the bottom components need to be the strongest. Have you seen The_Fish_Guy's thread on the cichlid-forum? it's here: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=103294

It's more of a novel really Worth a read!!!!

 

[Cyclop3000]

OMG, 139 pages LOL !! Alright, time to make coffee and start reading

Thanks wizzin!