FO 120 gallon?

[~ocean]

Yes bioballs will work with a filter sock however this only converts to nitrate. Large volume w/c's is how we control nitrate in FW tanks - in SW tanks that can get expensive. A nice DSB will help de- nitrify. There are plenty of nitrate controlling media on the market - purigen and chem pure to name a couple - might want to add that to your plan. Next would be fish selection - keep the stock low and limited to open water fish not reef rock inhabitants to help avoid stress diseases.

Hmm I personally am con-DSB for various reasons. First off, all DSB users are not supposed to disturb the sandbed; that works to a certain degree. But if that sandbed gets disturbed a li'll, you get all sort of crap in the water. Not just that but also you release lots of phosphates (causes algae). But contrary to popular belief, going with a shallow sandbed and cleaning it thoroughly is IMO the best option. I say that because of a few reasons. So the logistics behind it is; the different shades of sand in a sand bed are the various layers of bacterial activity. That bacteria is trying to process phosphates (which come from basically everything you put into the tank i.e. food). In a DSB, overtime, that bacteria tries to go upward in the sand because the DSB is getting filled with phosphates and detritus. That detritus is thus reallocating the bacteria into smaller and smaller spaces, making it less effective and unable to process the phosphates. But when you clean the sand bed, the bacteria is able to go back to its original state (with the assumption that you're running a filter/protein skimmer). And imo that is why I clean my sand regularly and keep a shallow sand bed. In the future I wanna try something like suspending my LR under a piece of acrylic or something and having a sandbed, that way I can do sand maintenance without bothering my LR's bacteria. Just some food for thought ;P

 

[fishman112]

Cheers, i think i will be going the shallow sand bed now. Have changed my mind and will be going tropical.

 

[~ocean]

That sounds great! Keep us filled on your setup. Btw what kind of stocking plans do you have?

 

[fishman112]

Will do.
I'm not sure as of yet, i haven't really decided. Figuring out how to filter it more so than the actual stock list

 

[fishman112]

How much live rock would you recommend for my sump?, I am choosing to go live FOWLR now


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[Otherone]

Hmm I personally am con-DSB for various reasons. First off, all DSB users are not supposed to disturb the sandbed; that works to a certain degree. But if that sandbed gets disturbed a li'll, you get all sort of crap in the water. Not just that but also you release lots of phosphates (causes algae). But contrary to popular belief, going with a shallow sandbed and cleaning it thoroughly is IMO the best option. I say that because of a few reasons. So the logistics behind it is; the different shades of sand in a sand bed are the various layers of bacterial activity. That bacteria is trying to process phosphates (which come from basically everything you put into the tank i.e. food). In a DSB, overtime, that bacteria tries to go upward in the sand because the DSB is getting filled with phosphates and detritus. That detritus is thus reallocating the bacteria into smaller and smaller spaces, making it less effective and unable to process the phosphates. But when you clean the sand bed, the bacteria is able to go back to its original state (with the assumption that you're running a filter/protein skimmer). And imo that is why I clean my sand regularly and keep a shallow sand bed. In the future I wanna try something like suspending my LR under a piece of acrylic or something and having a sandbed, that way I can do sand maintenance without bothering my LR's bacteria. Just some food for thought ;P

To the best of my knowledge PSB's (PO4 solubilizing bacteria) is terrestrial in origin and made in laboratories not naturally occurring in fish tanks. I suspect that you can introduce PSB's via grains such as sugar, yeast, or alcohol aka Dissolved Organic Carbon dosing (Vodka dosing) however this method is more or less used to increase reproduction de-nitrifying bacteria to lower Nitrate - the side effect is lowered Po4. This process also has no end the dosing must continue.

Best way to rid your tank of Po4 is Rust - granular ferric oxide resins. Another is calcium hydroxide - limewater or kalkwasser however this is dosing and if done improperly it will release more PO4 - not to mention reduction is super slow.
Also the afore mention vodka method.

As for DSB's - you brought up some good down sides - alot of ppl put them in the sump as to avoid disruption. I think tho the biggest downside is a constant source of silicates which fuels unsightly diatom blooms.

As for Nitrate control - once again more than 1 way to skin a cat - and if OP switches from F/O to Fowlr there is a place for denitrifying bacteria to grow. More than likely it will take 2-3 years to build an eco-complete system but fortunately there are tons of resins on the market combine with skimming that will help in the interim.

 

[~ocean]

To the best of my knowledge PSB's (PO4 solubilizing bacteria) is terrestrial in origin and made in laboratories not naturally occurring in fish tanks. I suspect that you can introduce PSB's via grains such as sugar, yeast, or alcohol aka Dissolved Organic Carbon dosing (Vodka dosing) however this method is more or less used to increase reproduction de-nitrifying bacteria to lower Nitrate - the side effect is lowered Po4. This process also has no end the dosing must continue.

Best way to rid your tank of Po4 is Rust - granular ferric oxide resins. Another is calcium hydroxide - limewater or kalkwasser however this is dosing and if done improperly it will release more PO4 - not to mention reduction is super slow.
Also the afore mention vodka method.

As for DSB's - you brought up some good down sides - alot of ppl put them in the sump as to avoid disruption. I think tho the biggest downside is a constant source of silicates which fuels unsightly diatom blooms.

As for Nitrate control - once again more than 1 way to skin a cat - and if OP switches from F/O to Fowlr there is a place for denitrifying bacteria to grow. More than likely it will take 2-3 years to build an eco-complete system but fortunately there are tons of resins on the market combine with skimming that will help in the interim.

@fishman112 I'd say aim for 0.5-1 pound per gallon (60-120 pounds) so I'd go like 75 and see how the rock looks, if you want more add more, want less, take out a bit.

And otherone; Great points - I'm sure many are familiar with tank crashes when they suddenly stop dosing vodka, although I've heard of people weaning their tanks (bacteria) off vodka. And you're dead on about the calcium hydroxide, I use kalk in my system, and its the only thing I dose. Personally I don't dose calcium, but apparently it does good. And about sandbeds - I used to always wonder why the hell people would do bb or epoxy bottoms, but the hassle of dealing with sand, especially the effects it may have on your tank, is a prevalent issue. I agree about nitrates - LR will help a ton. If you compare it to a sand bed, the sand is more 2D like, with only one surface to process, whereas the rock is 3D, able to grow denitrifying bac on all of its surface.