Glass corner brace?

[Dsoars]

Drawing up some designs trying to figure out the size and details of a tank I want to build and I’ve been doing research on different styles of bracing. I like the concept of internal bottom bracing and it gave me an idea for corner bracing with glass rods. I’ve seen different styles of silicone seam guards but not really bracing the actual glass panels in the corners. I included a couple sloppy pictures that might help explain what I mean. Does anyone have experience with bracing like this or ever even seen it and do you think it would work? The corners of the tank are gonna have trim on the outside anyways so I wouldn’t see the glass rods and the extra durability would be a peace of mind. I think it would possibly help increase the life of silicone and waterproofing strength

 

[jjohnwm]

As long as your glass is sufficiently thick for the dimensions of your build...and I would always recommend going thicker than absolutely necessary...I'm not sure you will achieve anything positive. You will have an exterior angle running all around the inside of your tank, inviting chipping and other damage. It might indeed add an extra layer of confidence to your waterproofing, but in a properly-constructed tank this is not needed. If you are concerned with the life of the silicone, doing this, i.e. adding even more silicone, won't make the stuff last any longer. It will, however, make it exponentially more difficult to re-seal at any future point. You will literally be doubling the amount of old silicone bead that must be laboriously removed before a new bead is laid down.

The biggest negative, IMHO, is the difficulty of construction. I don't know how much experience you have building all-glass tanks; they are not difficult per se, but assembling one is a time-sensitive operation. You need to get the whole thing put together in as few minutes as possible, as all the silicone needs to be laid down more-or-less continuously to achieve a waterproof construction. The glass goes together and then the interior bead needs to be smoothed all at once, before the stuff starts to set up. If you build it with this interior bracing...the same applies...except you will need to assemble the tank, making sure that enough silicone squeezes out to then lay the bracing into (or else lay down another bead for this purpose), then install all the bracing, and then smooth out twice as many seams afterwards...all while making sure that nothing slides out of place in the process, in the relatively few minutes that you have before the silicone starts to surface skim.

The less experience you have, the closer this operation comes to being practically impossible. You could, I suppose, build the tank first, allow the silicone to cure, carefully scrape off all the squeezed-out internal bead right down to bare glass, and then add a fresh bead to all the interior angles and install the braces as a separate operation...but this will not give you the strength of construction that is achieved by doing it all at once, and all the other negatives are still in place. This is essentially re-sealing a tank...that was built only a week before. Seems a bit silly, doesn't it?

IMHO, if you want the best strength, durability and ease of construction...use thicker glass, forget about the braces.

 

[Dsoars]

As long as your glass is sufficiently thick for the dimensions of your build...and I would always recommend going thicker than absolutely necessary...I'm not sure you will achieve anything positive. You will have an exterior angle running all around the inside of your tank, inviting chipping and other damage. It might indeed add an extra layer of confidence to your waterproofing, but in a properly-constructed tank this is not needed. If you are concerned with the life of the silicone, doing this, i.e. adding even more silicone, won't make the stuff last any longer. It will, however, make it exponentially more difficult to re-seal at any future point. You will literally be doubling the amount of old silicone bead that must be laboriously removed before a new bead is laid down.

The biggest negative, IMHO, is the difficulty of construction. I don't know how much experience you have building all-glass tanks; they are not difficult per se, but assembling one is a time-sensitive operation. You need to get the whole thing put together in as few minutes as possible, as all the silicone needs to be laid down more-or-less continuously to achieve a waterproof construction. The glass goes together and then the interior bead needs to be smoothed all at once, before the stuff starts to set up. If you build it with this interior bracing...the same applies...except you will need to assemble the tank, making sure that enough silicone squeezes out to then lay the bracing into (or else lay down another bead for this purpose), then install all the bracing, and then smooth out twice as many seams afterwards...all while making sure that nothing slides out of place in the process, in the relatively few minutes that you have before the silicone starts to surface skim.

The less experience you have, the closer this operation comes to being practically impossible. You could, I suppose, build the tank first, allow the silicone to cure, carefully scrape off all the squeezed-out internal bead right down to bare glass, and then add a fresh bead to all the interior angles and install the braces as a separate operation...but this will not give you the strength of construction that is achieved by doing it all at once, and all the other negatives are still in place. This is essentially re-sealing a tank...that was built only a week before. Seems a bit silly, doesn't it?

IMHO, if you want the best strength, durability and ease of construction...use thicker glass, forget about the braces.

Lots of good points I never thought of. I have minimal experience so I think you’re right it would be unnecessary and make it more difficult. It’s also a shallow tank so less stress on the glass. It’s gonna be 88”Lx24”Wx18”H and I planned on using half inch glass but what would you recommend with your experience? About 165 gallons

 

[Backfromthedead]

Ive seen this type of construction before but never attempted it. It is often referred to informally as bottom panel eurobracing. In functionality it 1) reinforces the bottom panel by essentially framing it in with more glass and 2) creates a stronger bottom panel to side panel structural seam by significantly adding to the surface area of the seam. Ive seen the vertical seam reinforcement strips in higher quality, large rimless designs that need the additional silicone to make up for lack of a top brace.

At 88x24x18 and 1/2" glass i would not bother with the hassle of incorporating this into your design. While its nice to go as thick as possible on the bottom panel, 1/2" is more than adequate at 18" height if properly constructed with an effective top brace. If you have the strips of glass already they would be much more useful in a full perimeter eurobracing around the top of the tank.. You also run the risk of mucking up your seams if you are blindly charging into this new design and dont have a set procedure...if you are dead set on it, i would consider building a smaller tank from scrap glass with the design first for practice before trying a 7+ footer.

I mentioned the top brace before...your pictures dont include any visible bracing for the top of the tank. The tank youre proposing would definitely require some bracing and i would consider that a more important design element to plan for at this time than trying to get fancy with the bottom panel bracing.

 

[Dsoars]

Ive seen this type of construction before but never attempted it. It is often referred to informally as bottom panel eurobracing. In functionality it 1) reinforces the bottom panel by essentially framing it in with more glass and 2) creates a stronger bottom panel to side panel structural seam by significantly adding to the surface area of the seam. Ive seen the vertical seam reinforcement strips in higher quality, large rimless designs that need the additional silicone to make up for lack of a top brace.

At 88x24x18 and 1/2" glass i would not bother with the hassle of incorporating this into your design. While its nice to go as thick as possible on the bottom panel, 1/2" is more than adequate at 18" height if properly constructed with an effective top brace. If you have the strips of glass already they would be much more useful in a full perimeter eurobracing around the top of the tank.. You also run the risk of mucking up your seams if you are blindly charging into this new design and dont have a set procedure...if you are dead set on it, i would consider building a smaller tank from scrap glass with the design first for practice before trying a 7+ footer.

I mentioned the top brace before...your pictures dont include any visible bracing for the top of the tank. The tank youre proposing would definitely require some bracing and i would consider that a more important design element to plan for at this time than trying to get fancy with the bottom panel bracing.

Good to know thank you! Yes I’m gonna have too bracing I just don’t have it drawn on there

 

[Dsoars]

Good to know thank you! Yes I’m gonna have too bracing I just don’t have it drawn on there

Top bracing^

 

[jjohnwm]

I agree completely with Backfromthedead ; your time and effort will provide greater dividends if you install top braces than ones on the bottom, and miles more than side corner braces.

Honestly, half-inch glass is a great idea; a few decades back, tanks in the 100-gallon range were usually made with that, and they were much tougher and more durable than today's fragile toys. Not only is the glass less likely to break, but the greatly increased surface area of the silicone bead is far tougher as well.

As an aside, I owned several commercially-made all-glass 100-120 gallon tanks back then, and none of them had either Euro-bracing or cross-braces. This tank, with its modest depth of 18 inches and built with half-inch glass, would probably do just fine without a cross brace...but including one in your plans would be an easy way to add strength and confidence to your build.

 

[Backfromthedead]

I agree completely with Backfromthedead ; your time and effort will provide greater dividends if you install top braces than ones on the bottom, and miles more than side corner braces.

Honestly, half-inch glass is a great idea; a few decades back, tanks in the 100-gallon range were usually made with that, and they were much tougher and more durable than today's fragile toys. Not only is the glass less likely to break, but the greatly increased surface area of the silicone bead is far tougher as well.

As an aside, I owned several commercially-made all-glass 100-120 gallon tanks back then, and none of them had either Euro-bracing or cross-braces. This tank, with its modest depth of 18 inches and built with half-inch glass, would probably do just fine without a cross brace...but including one in your plans would be an easy way to add strength and confidence to your build.

True enough. One of my first larger tanks was this old 150g with 5/8" glass that likely ran for decades with no center brace. I could not read the makers mark on the old sticker but "1987" was still clearly visible. I did add a glass crossbrace before putting it into action though.


My 84x24x24 is constructed entirely of 1/2" glass, but is braced top and bottom with the sturdy oceanic trim. I wish like hell i could find a treasure trove of this extruded trim in various lengths to build my tanks with, but as it is im stuck with cutting up whatever clean glass i can come up with.

 

[Dsoars]

True enough. One of my first larger tanks was this old 150g with 5/8" glass that likely ran for decades with no center brace. I could not read the makers mark on the old sticker but "1987" was still clearly visible. I did add a glass crossbrace before putting it into action though.
View attachment 1526205

My 84x24x24 is constructed entirely of 1/2" glass, but is braced top and bottom with the sturdy oceanic trim. I wish like hell i could find a treasure trove of this extruded trim in various lengths to build my tanks with, but as it is im stuck with cutting up whatever clean glass i can come up with.
View attachment 1526206

Geez that’s an old tank. Nothing is built to last anymore like it used to be

 

[Dsoars]

I agree completely with Backfromthedead ; your time and effort will provide greater dividends if you install top braces than ones on the bottom, and miles more than side corner braces.

Honestly, half-inch glass is a great idea; a few decades back, tanks in the 100-gallon range were usually made with that, and they were much tougher and more durable than today's fragile toys. Not only is the glass less likely to break, but the greatly increased surface area of the silicone bead is far tougher as well.

As an aside, I owned several commercially-made all-glass 100-120 gallon tanks back then, and none of them had either Euro-bracing or cross-braces. This tank, with its modest depth of 18 inches and built with half-inch glass, would probably do just fine without a cross brace...but including one in your plans would be an easy way to add strength and confidence to your build.

Yea I think I’m gonna do 1/2, do away with the bottom bracing or any corner bracing, and just add a couple cross braces on top. It’ll be a lot cheaper too without all the little pieces of glass for bottom braces. Thank you!!